God's Laws
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15-03-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 09:51 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 11:28 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Would you go and rape and kill if your god wouldnt order you otherwise?
Following the orders of someone else, imaginary or not, doesnt make you moral, it makes you amoral at best. To be moral you need to be a moral agent and have a moral standard, rather than being an obedient robot. Do you have such a standard?

Did god send the big flood?
Did every human being but Noahs bunch get drowned?
Was every other human being "guilty" of someting?


States dont kill people for thought crimes like not believing.
Not even all states kill people at all.
Killing people is immoral.
If you kill people, its immoral.
If a state kills people, its immoral.
If a god kills people, its immoral.
If it doesnt kill them but torture them for ever its even more immoral.
If it doesnt kill them but tortures them forever for a thought crime like not believing, its immoral beyond any comprehension.
Thats my moral standard.

There are things worse than being killed, like being tortured for ever.
How about defining that?

And you morally bancrupt piece of human shit dare to compare atheists with convicted felons?! If my humanism (respect for human life) is a felony im glad to be labeled a criminal and cant wait to burn in the same flaming pit with Hitchens et al (If it was real which it isnt). I spit on your god and i spit on you, because you despise humanity and humans. Therefore i despise you.

Deesse:

1. See my avatar signature. You are part of the problem.

2. You use a lot of words like "morality", but without justification. How do you "know" the State executions are immoral? From what basis did you come to understand that life is a precious gift?

3. Why are you "a better person" than a convicted felon? Felons are people made in God's image. Clearly, though, you must despise such persons, and spit on them (also) since you were offended to think I might have compared an atheist to a felon--and as if NO atheists are felons! Your pride, your looking down on felons... you are part of the problem here. Repent!

You failed to adress a single question of mine. Dont try to weasel out:

Did every drowned person save Noahs family deserve to drown?
Would you go and rape and kill if your god wouldnt order you otherwise?
Is killing immoral, or does it depend on who does the killing?
Is infinite punishment for a finite crime just and moral?
What is your moral standard (not the one of someone else you blindly follow)?

And please dont give me shit like
Quote:You use a lot of words like "morality", but without justification
before you have laid out your moral standard by answering my -simple- questions. If you do have a moral standard these questions should be fairly easy to answer.
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15-03-2016, 11:15 AM
RE: God's Laws
(29-02-2016 02:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ALL the Mosaic Law, even the ceremonial commandments, can be summed as love Jesus Christ and love your fellow man. Atheists may do one, just not the other.

But whatever you do, don't love your fellow man too much because God hates that shit. Dodgy Facepalm

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15-03-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 11:15 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(29-02-2016 02:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ALL the Mosaic Law, even the ceremonial commandments, can be summed as love Jesus Christ and love your fellow man. Atheists may do one, just not the other.

But whatever you do, don't love your fellow man too much because God hates that shit. Dodgy Facepalm

Oh, love is okay so far as it goes, but it's very clearly only to be given to the right sorts of people, so long as they fulfil the terms and conditions...

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15-03-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 11:15 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  
(29-02-2016 02:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ALL the Mosaic Law, even the ceremonial commandments, can be summed as love Jesus Christ and love your fellow man. Atheists may do one, just not the other.

But whatever you do, don't love your fellow man too much because God hates that shit. Dodgy Facepalm

But rape, incest and slavery are okay. Go figure. Consider

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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15-03-2016, 01:04 PM (This post was last modified: 15-03-2016 01:16 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 09:54 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 06:56 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I didn't even notice this question until just now but I want to answer it. I have been told by many believers that the only sin that God can't forgive is to deny the holy spirit or just not accept Jesus's blood sacrifice. So that means pretty much all the "old laws" that Jesus said he didn't come to change but to fulfill are null and void as you can be forgiven for all of them. It's like that joke about the little boy who prays for a bike and is told that's not how it works so he goes and steals a bike and then asks for forgiveness. Your religion is based on the premise any sin can be forgiven, the laws are pretty much useless unless you actually care about hurting people, otherwise go ahead and commit crimes and atrocities, as long as you accept Jesus in your heart and accept his brutal death as spiritual punishment for your crimes it's all good "Welcome to Heaven!"

The death of Jesus in no way teaches anyone to be good, it only says it's ok to be bad and just accept that Jesus did a good thing, God wants you to accept him and you get eternal life in a paradise. There is nothing moral about that and it only gives you license to do bad things. If we don't we suffer, we're basically being held hostage since who would choose to suffer forever? No one would so it's not really a fair choice and in the end who would want to allow an innocent to suffer for their crimes and mistakes? Only a bad person would agree to that.

You are missing two things there:

1. I didn't "agree" for Christ to die and rise for me. I only assented to the gospel after the fact. You didn't agree, either. You just have to deal with the fact now.

2. I don't buy into the "Christians sin and ask for forgiveness after" nonsense for several reasons. One, I don't have to ask for forgiveness! I'm forgiven already. Two, I have a tender conscious towards God as a convert. I wouldn't do half the things atheists do, like blaspheme God, dishonor the Sabbath, refuse to tithe, curse God, curse my fellow man, respond with vicious anger when wronged, etc. Your "charity" ought to start at home.

First of all you are still ignoring valid questions that I've asked and that other posters have asked you either because you have no idea how to answer or you know any answer you give will be baseless and immoral but I will give you an answer for your assertions here:

1. You say you didn't "agree" for Christ's death to magically cleanse you of your sins so you can go to Heaven even though you may have done horrible things in your life yet you "assented". Here is the definition of the world assent:

as·sent
noun
1.
the expression of approval or agreement.
"a loud murmur of assent"
verb
1.
express approval or agreement, typically officially.
"Roosevelt assented to the agreement"
synonyms: agree to, accept, approve, consent to, acquiesce in, concur in, give

As you can see the word "assent" and "agree" are synonym of each other and basically mean the same thing so what I asserted originally is true, you "agreed" to be held hostage and told if you don't want to be tortured forever you will assent or agree that this human blood sacrifice was a moral and righteous act carried out to clear you of sins so you can be rewarded with eternity in a paradise. How is that moral? You probably won't answer but it's not moral, it's being told you have no real choice anyway, it's already happened, a human was brutally murdered and bled out so you can be fixed because you are an awful broken thing.

2. You say you are "forgiven already" so you don't have to ask for it so what's the point of trying to do good things? The entire premise of Christianity is you are a sinner, you will be punished, no worries, just accept this blood sacrifice of an immortal being and it's all good now. In no way does that teach anyone to be good, it simply gives a loophole for being bad.

Now let's break down the awful things you think atheists do:

Blaspheme God: How is this a bad thing? We don't believe any God/s exist so why would we care about blaspheming one? Also is God so insecure and sensitive that he can't handle a little bit of disrespect, especially considering all the terrible things he's supposedly done? Pretty sure he can handle a bit of criticism especially since he's fictional character anyway.

Dishonor the Sabbath: Why is it such a big deal to work on a certain day of the week? Are police officers dishonoring the Sabbath when they work on Saturdays? Should all hospitals close down too? What if an emergency happens when someone is relaxing with their family?

Refuse to tithe: Again we are atheists, why would we want to give money to your religion or your God? Why does God need your money anyway? Is he in really bad debt?

Curse God: Once again, we don't think your God exists and also "cursing" him is pretty much the same as blaspheming so you're repeating yourself here.

Curse fellow man: First of all Christians curse their fellow man all the time, I'm not sure about you but if you honestly believe many of us will go to Hell for simply not believing in Jesus you are cursing us, even if you admit we are good people it's even worse. Secondly, what is a "curse" anyway? Just words? Ok humans can handle some bad words from time to time, it seems it's your God and his zombie kid are the ones who can't handle it.

Respond with vicious anger when wronged: I don't have much of a temper, you don't know if any of the atheists here have ever responded with "vicious anger" when wronged so you are assuming but I know many Christians who have. I won't judge all of them for their actions. Also I hate to keep repeating myself from previous posts but your God has reacted in vicious anger many times apparently, he drowned every land animal once, every single one, save a few that were put on a big boat. He's a pretty terrible guy when's a mad.

I'd like you to actually answer these questions I've asked here, you probably won't but you know everything you pointed out makes no sense, you an do much better than this because pretty much everything you assert is either logically wrong/immoral or based on the Bible which is a book we don't think is based on the truth so you need to use something else we can agree is factually relevant.

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15-03-2016, 03:53 PM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 12:41 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 11:15 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  But whatever you do, don't love your fellow man too much because God hates that shit. Dodgy Facepalm

But rape, incest and slavery are okay. Go figure. Consider
Well duh, rape and incest are out of love so they can spread more love to their children

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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15-03-2016, 04:00 PM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 09:48 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 10:54 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Don't certainly have to have a right to life stance... yet again you bring up a view that is so pointlessly good/bad. You should talk about the law & meaning of the law to felons still, there is much to actually gain FOR them and for studies. Oddly you're acting like you should give up once the crime is done yet your God refused to do that for some reason.

Which leads to another weird note, It always seemed just a flaw into the concept that God couldn't or wouldn't just completely start over. Why carry on the life after adam and eve or cain and abel. Why keep noah alive to continue the line, he was going to die anyway. Why not just start anew, you keep those few righteous like lot and put him in heaven and you begin a new species of man. who cares about what happened in the past, it doesn't matter. It's just story telling is why.

Why have five kids, if you know four will live, and only three will be well behaved citizens? The answer is, of course, love.

God didn't give up on the people you wrote about and He hasn't given up on you, either. God loves you.

A loving being that knew two kids were destined for death and desolation would only have the three.

Thanks for confirming that your god isn't a loving being and as well isn't competent enough to fix its mistakes.
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15-03-2016, 06:51 PM
RE: God's Laws
(10-03-2016 02:41 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(09-03-2016 04:37 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I predict either no answer or the invoking of original sin.

And i cant wait to point out that the concept of original sin is immoral too.

I have a post here somewhere and I recently wrote a blog post that essentially says the same thing. I have yet to hear a good argument for the notion of sin or of original sin specifically.
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15-03-2016, 09:50 PM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 12:41 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 11:15 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote:  But whatever you do, don't love your fellow man too much because God hates that shit. Dodgy Facepalm

But rape, incest and slavery are okay. Go figure. Consider

Well that was a different time and a different culture and you are clearly taking it out of context.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
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16-03-2016, 09:00 AM
RE: God's Laws
(15-03-2016 10:16 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(15-03-2016 09:56 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Love is a "nonsense" reason for bearing, then raising, children? I don't believe you are being serious.

What is the problem with people in Hell? I don't understand. I've thought about this one a lot. No one is in Hell by accident or because they didn't hear about Jesus. People are in Hell or Heaven solely by choice. God makes no mistakes there, or anywhere. What is your issue?

You know you stated for having multiple while knowing one will die.. it's different than this right? That, the point and purpose of what you said in the 1st point is not done out of love no. Do you know anything outside the bible about social history of why people did x or y? Even today, people with the potential of death of a kid will have more. That's a social norm kinda thing. In areas where death of children, stillbirths, etc. is high... people have more children. There are multiple factors, love really isn't the biggest. The reasons are generally are still working/farming benefits or the more chances for a prodigy of yours to aid you. The reasons you have a kid in general, that's love, that's not the reasons you have many kids when you know its likely a couple will die though.

Do you not get when you make a statement if you alter it you are making different statements and they might mean two different things all together, even if they're similar? It seems you lack the grasp of what you say when you say it. CONSTANTLY.

Do you honestly think the having 5 kids knowing 4 will survive is the same as simple saying bearing and raising children?

Because that's how you come across via this response. As someone who ignores his own statements to just make counter statements to no end.

So did god give up on these people yet in hell? He didn't make a "mistake" yet he gave up on them? Then God wanted to have that... and he easily could of just started over at any point. Well those people if they're punished never asked to exist. That was gods doing in god allowing humans to exist flawed because he loves them so much he couldn't start over, despite him being omniscient and knowing there would continue to become people tortured like this. but he loves them so it's their fault they exist despite never asking to exist or never asking for jesus to be their sacrifice.(A point you just said is how we are) we are not "asking" for this yet apparently deserve to be punished to your view of this whole situation... for simply existing and not think that people who use weak logical reasoning are right. Thankfully, unlike many, I can be in a point where information has spread around enough that is clear as day describing how human bodies and chemistry works, so I don't have any fears or believes in these things. It's so much better knowing there aren't these millions of tortured souls instead just fallen forgotten humans who's legacies were whipped away after a couple generations past them each for the most part.

I didn't have children for social standards or social pressures. I love my children. I know atheists love their children too, and not just in chemical bonding ways... from the "heart".

No, people in Hell didn't ask to exist. But they are self-determinant and can get out of Hell proactively. You may not have asked to have been enslaved. But if offered the opportunity to escape... the Bible explains that we in bondage to sin are enslaved by sin, but have a firm way of escape.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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