God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
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04-01-2010, 02:37 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2013 11:50 AM by Chas.)
 
God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
OK, so here's the deal:

According to the bible (and most preachers i've talked to) god is omnipotent, that is, there are no restrictions or limits to his power. This in itself is a paradox. If god exists, then i'd like to propose the following question to him:

Can you create a rock which is so heavy that even you can't lift it off the ground?

There are only two possible answers to this question, yes and no. If he were able to create a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it, he wouldn't be omnipotent since he couldn't lift the rock. On the other hand, if he couldn't create a rock which is so heavy that he can't lift it, then we have to reach the same conclusion, he would not be omnipotent.

Just thought i'd post this, it's been lingering in my head for so long that i needed to get it out Smile
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04-01-2010, 03:08 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
Yeah I see the paradox there. I think your point suggests that the whole god thing is pretty much impossible.
Too many contradictions.
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04-01-2010, 03:46 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
Exactly, the bible is logically flawed, and since that the bible is usually the main "reasoning" behind all attempts of conversion and missionary i think we need to find all the holes that we can use when debating this topic with others.
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04-01-2010, 05:37 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
Yeah, I wish I would have done that years ago when I was still debating the issue. I had so many worthless arguments with people that would have gone better if had either more information on what they believe or a better grasp of logic and debate techniques. I will say that I don't think that it's a futile effort to debate with people. It's healthy for both sides to sharpen their arguments.
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05-01-2010, 09:03 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
If God is omnipotent, then God IS everything. So the real question is that can God lift himself? Maybe he is a fatass and can't do a chinup. Maybe The Buddhists hit that nail on the head
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05-01-2010, 10:45 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
I don't think the laws of physics apply to God because it's body mass is made up of neurotransmitters in people's brains (well micro-physics maybe depending how small your brain is). I never did trust that big fat Buddha anyway-- I read some of his stuff and he's as whacky as the rest of them.
Anyway, if people want to define God as "everything"--I'm fine with that. But to personify it (with human traits) and describe it as something outside of the known universe that isn't subject to the natural laws that we now understand, is absolutely maddening.
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06-01-2010, 08:05 AM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
That's how god is described in the bible, a divine being of some sorts that, apparently, is not a subject to the laws of physics.
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06-01-2010, 10:24 AM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
God is described in the bible in so many ways... Who knows which one's the right one.
I've read of this paradox before, but instead of a rock it was a mountain Tongue

I found the article on wikipedia:
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_paradox
________________________________________________

The God paradox is a problem in philosophy. The problem is explained here:
If God can do anything, can He make a mountain which is too heavy for Him to lift?
This problem is a paradox because:
  • If He can make such a mountain, there is something which He cannot do: He cannot lift the mountain
  • If He cannot make such a mountain, there is something which He cannot do: He cannot make the mountain.
______________________________________________________

Answers
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_par...od_Paradox

My favorite answer is:
_______________________________________________________
An answer from analytical philosophy
In analytical philosophy, problems can be solved by breaking it into smaller pieces. One solves each of the small problems.
Let us see how one can use this for the God Paradox. The paradox is:
If God can do anything, can He make a mountain which is too heavy for Him to lift?
If one changes this question to a sentence, it becomes:
God can do anything, which means that can He make a mountain which is too heavy for Him to lift.
We can make this even more simple. First we must see that because God can do anything:
  1. He can make a mountain.
  2. He can lift anything.


Now we can write the sentence as these facts:
  1. God can do anything.
  2. God can make a mountain (because of fact 1).
  3. God can lift anything (because of fact 1).
  4. God cannot lift the mountain.

Facts 1, 2 and 3 must always be true. Now we must see if fact 4 is true or false:
  • If 4 is true, then 3 must be false (fact 1 must also be false).
  • If 4 is false, then 1 must be false.
  • If 4 is true or false, fact 1 is disproved. Illustrating God paradox does make sense, or that omnipotence (being able to do anything) is impossible.
This rather simple language of logic (Primitive) does indeed rely on 1,2 and 3 all being true, therefore 4 must be true, if it is false then either 1,2 or 3 must also be false.
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06-01-2010, 10:27 AM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
Nice, got to love wikipedia Tongue
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06-01-2010, 01:20 PM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
I have been working on finding an answer to this and I think I have come up with one though I am sure it is just as flawed as what you guys are saying

It is a different question though but with the same sort of logic

"Can God create a God with stronger powers than himself"

Now, by asking that question you have assumed that God doesn't have all the power in the world.
If I were to simply say that he has all power in the world imaginable then it is simply not possible for a stronger God to exist.
I guess that does place a limit on "God" but if I were to simply argue that the limit is no limit, as in "my power is limitless", then if I were to trye to create a God stronger than myself, as in with more power, I would find I already had those powers.
Might be a bit complicated written but I would love to hear your thoughts
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