God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
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08-02-2013, 11:33 AM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 06:11 AM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  Dafuq?

Of course it is a paradox. Either God can create a rock he cannot lift, or he cannot.

If he cannot, then he is not omnipotent.

If he can, then he is unable to lift the rock. The inability to do something, whatever that thing may be, even if it was a desired result of a different action shows that there is something he cannot do. Hence he is not omnipotent.

You're thinking too concretely. I know that probably sounds like a compliment, but in the mental health world, its a term used to describe people with mental diminishment, because people should be able to think and understand things abstractly.

We're not even talking about a rock. We're talking about whether an omnipotent being can limit himself. And yes, he can. He must be able to or he is not omnipotent. In that instance, the limit becomes an expression of the omnipotence. But once you grasp that, you immediately confront various levels of "reality." Because in creating that rock, God has created an alterior reality where that rock resides, and then your starting to get into my territory, which is monism. Can God create a dualistic system within His monistic nature, and again, the answer is yes. It is the same thing as creating a rock too heavy to lift. And thus we come back full circle to the original speculation.

You say I'm dumb, but you haven't even displayed a sufficient ability for abstract reasoning to tackle the very question you asked. You don't even understand the importance of what you asked. You're like some caveman who's only application for the wheel is on a child's toy. Behind the question of the too-big rock is a full understanding of creation, but you think it's a logical argument against the existence of God. You're a child. If I were you, I'd just drop the question; it's not doing you a bit of good.

As for when I'm leaving: right now my forum has no traffic, which is how I intend it, for now. I have a series of videos to make over the next few weeks. I have to figure the best way to promote it, and establish a work flow. I can't be debating while I'm building. You'll notice I haven't started any new posts here either. But, I can come over here and exercise my wits. Yesterday, we tested out the video and audio equipment. Next week we will put together the set, and I will start making the ten-part YouTube series on what is Veridicanism. Boring, yes, but it has to be in place in the Library, and it will get me back into the swing of public speaking.

Right now, I have to start cleaning up this office. I have coffee cups, scraps of paper, notes, you name it. I have been working very hard this week on getting things ready. Easter isn't until March 31st, but I have a lot to do.

After that, I will be transitioning away. Obviously, there's going to come a time when I will only have time to attend to my own forum. I can't donate to this site anymore, apparently, so there's no reason for me to be here.

Anyway...you asked. Drinking Beverage
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08-02-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 11:33 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 06:11 AM)hedgehog648 Wrote:  Dafuq?

Of course it is a paradox. Either God can create a rock he cannot lift, or he cannot.

If he cannot, then he is not omnipotent.

If he can, then he is unable to lift the rock. The inability to do something, whatever that thing may be, even if it was a desired result of a different action shows that there is something he cannot do. Hence he is not omnipotent.

You're thinking too concretely. I know that probably sounds like a compliment, but in the mental health world, its a term used to describe people with mental diminishment, because people should be able to think and understand things abstractly.

We're not even talking about a rock. We're talking about whether an omnipotent being can limit himself. And yes, he can. He must be able to or he is not omnipotent. In that instance, the limit becomes an expression of the omnipotence. But once you grasp that, you immediately confront various levels of "reality." Because in creating that rock, God has created an alterior reality where that rock resides, and then your starting to get into my territory, which is monism. Can God create a dualistic system within His monistic nature, and again, the answer is yes. It is the same thing as creating a rock too heavy to lift. And thus we come back full circle to the original speculation.

You say I'm dumb, but you haven't even displayed a sufficient ability for abstract reasoning to tackle the very question you asked. You don't even understand the importance of what you asked. You're like some caveman who's only application for the wheel is on a child's toy. Behind the question of the too-big rock is a full understanding of creation, but you think it's a logical argument against the existence of God. You're a child. If I were you, I'd just drop the question; it's not doing you a bit of good.

As for when I'm leaving: right now my forum has no traffic, which is how I intend it, for now. I have a series of videos to make over the next few weeks. I have to figure the best way to promote it, and establish a work flow. I can't be debating while I'm building. But, I can come over here and exercise my wits. Yesterday, we tested out the video and audio equipment. Next week we will put together the set, and I will start making the ten-part YouTube series on what is Veridicanism. Boring, yes, but it has to be in place in the Library, and it will get me back into the swing of public speaking.

Right now, I have to start cleaning up this office. I have coffee cups, scraps of paper, notes, you name it. I have been working very hard this week on getting things ready. Easter isn't until March 31st, but I have a lot to do.

After that, I will be transitioning away. Obviously, there's going to come a time when I will only have time to attend to my own forum. I can't donate to this site anymore, apparently, so there's no reason for me to be here.

Anyway...you asked. Drinking Beverage


Why not just leave now?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2013, 11:36 AM
 
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 11:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why not just leave now?

Because then I have to clean up my office. Why not ban me?
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08-02-2013, 11:41 AM
RE: God's Omnipitance - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 11:36 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 11:34 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why not just leave now?

Because then I have to clean up my office. Why not ban me?


Why would we ban you? That's not how we roll. You are free to blather on, I just don't see why you bother to blather here.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2013, 11:45 AM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2013 11:56 AM by Vera.)
RE: Fucking learn to spell
(08-02-2013 11:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  Why would we ban you? That's not how we roll. You are free to blather on, I just don't see why you bother to blather here.
Forget about Egor's insane drivel. Can someone please do something about the title of this thread! I die a little every time I see it.

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08-02-2013, 12:30 PM
RE: God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
Could someone reexplain this paradox again? In little words that I can understand? Also, why is egor so afraid of being banned? All I see is mods reassuring him that he won't be.

When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.

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08-02-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 12:30 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  Could someone reexplain this paradox again? In little words that I can understand? Also, why is egor so afraid of being banned? All I see is mods reassuring him that he won't be.
If God can't create a rock too heavy to lift then He's not all powerful. If He creates a rock too heavy too lift then He's not all powerful.

It's really a dumb paradox, honestly... as it redefines omnipotence and creates specific limitations that are non-existent to God.

ie
You can't put limitations on omnipotence; thus, the paradox is nonexistent.

If there are limitations on omnipotence, then it's not omnipotent... like I said, redefining omnipotence to fit the paradox.

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08-02-2013, 12:45 PM
RE: God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 12:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 12:30 PM)Xinoftruden Wrote:  Could someone reexplain this paradox again? In little words that I can understand? Also, why is egor so afraid of being banned? All I see is mods reassuring him that he won't be.
If God can't create a rock too heavy to lift then He's not all powerful. If He creates a rock too heavy too lift then He's not all powerful.

It's really a dumb paradox, honestly... as it redefines omnipotence and creates specific limitations that are non-existent to God.

ie
You can't put limitations on omnipotence; thus, the paradox is nonexistent.

If there are limitations on omnipotence, then it's not omnipotent... like I said, redefining omnipotence to fit the paradox.


No. It confirms that the concept of omnipotence is logically incoherent. There can be no such property.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-02-2013, 12:51 PM
RE: God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 12:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 12:39 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  If God can't create a rock too heavy to lift then He's not all powerful. If He creates a rock too heavy too lift then He's not all powerful.

It's really a dumb paradox, honestly... as it redefines omnipotence and creates specific limitations that are non-existent to God.

ie
You can't put limitations on omnipotence; thus, the paradox is nonexistent.

If there are limitations on omnipotence, then it's not omnipotent... like I said, redefining omnipotence to fit the paradox.


No. It confirms that the concept of omnipotence is logically incoherent. There can be no such property.
But, the logical coherence of the concept of omnipotence isn't the issue here... it's whether or not God is omnipotent.

And, you're incorrect... in our conscious, rational, logical way of humanly thinking there can be no such property. That's not to say that there is no such property. Within the known physical realm, the property is not possible.

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08-02-2013, 12:52 PM
RE: God's Omnipotence - The heavy rock paradox
(08-02-2013 12:51 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(08-02-2013 12:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  No. It confirms that the concept of omnipotence is logically incoherent. There can be no such property.
But, the logical coherence of the concept of omnipotence isn't the issue here... it's whether or not God is omnipotent.

And, you're incorrect... in our conscious, rational, logical way of humanly thinking there can be no such property. That's not to say that there is no such property. Within the known physical realm, the property is not possible.


So your response is special pleading. Drinking Beverage

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