God's Three Big O's!
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04-08-2012, 12:20 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 11:53 AM)elemts Wrote:  Although I have heard people say the bible where god is asking questions (that obviously he would know given what these people also believe about him), is god asking just for the sake of it, or just giving the person a chance to be honest (despite god also knowing what the response would be before asking).

That doesn't apply to this:-

Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

If you can play Hide & Seek with someone... they're not omniscient. Dodgy
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04-08-2012, 12:23 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:20 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 11:53 AM)elemts Wrote:  Although I have heard people say the bible where god is asking questions (that obviously he would know given what these people also believe about him), is god asking just for the sake of it, or just giving the person a chance to be honest (despite god also knowing what the response would be before asking).

That doesn't apply to this:-

Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

If you can play Hide & Seek with someone... they're not omniscient. Dodgy
It's a metaphor! Hobo

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04-08-2012, 12:25 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:23 PM)Vosur Wrote:  It's a metaphor! Hobo

Ah. The final line of biblical defence. Smile
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04-08-2012, 12:26 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:25 PM)Red Celt Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 12:23 PM)Vosur Wrote:  It's a metaphor! Hobo

Ah. The final line of biblical defence. Smile
You're taking the verse out of context. Hobo

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04-08-2012, 12:47 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 10:38 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 10:31 AM)Red Celt Wrote:  Genesis 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? 10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. 11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Well, the biblical version of God certainly isn't omniscient. Why ask questions that he already has the answers to?

So confession booths could be created.

That's pretty much it. Sorry, this might get long...

The entire notion of "free will" being contrary to an "omniscient" being, places within humans the very idea of guilt; guilt that humans ever dared go against this all knowing, all powerful being. Humans must be continually reminded that this being is all powerful ... because there is a plan... hereafter known as the plan.

"Fact": It was planned that humans eat from a "knowledge tree" so they would obtain another level of knowledge, without it they would never progress, they would never be able to take the next step beyond this being's control... this was part of the plan. Upon eating from this tree and accepting this "knowledge" humans see and accept "free will" - the acceptance itself is in fact choice. Of course, this choice has been directed so that everything could progress... according to plan.

Humans are culpable so they can't back out now. Humans have become part of the plan by their own action... this is what is meant by "free will". They've entered the plan of their own free will, and now they get to also start making shit up as they go... or so they've been led to assume. But they've got another thing coming. How dare humans assume they have any power that is not given them by this all powerful being? One must never forget this... it must be reinforced.

This guilt of culpability, this new realization of free will, while simultaneously questioning this all mighty being and therefore the plan, is a further distraction from humans progressing beyond this being's grasp (which is part of the plan.)

It's a burden and we must be "relieved" of this burden or we'll never move on. This burden distracts us from our everyday living; it either distracts us from our ability to serve the all powerful, all knowing, all mighty, or it distracts us from what we perceive as our free will over how to manage shit ourselves. Either way, it's a distraction and a burden on the plan to progress in whatever direction it will take... which is in actuality what is meant by free will.

Confessionals equal power. And someone's gotta take control of that power...
If one wants to keep humans following and serving the all powerful, all knowing being, then relieving this burden will help the human to stay this course. Humans need relief from the guilt and need to have all the reinforcement they can get to keep belief alive. It's ok for humans to think they have free will... as long as it's the kind of free will that will keep humans thinking they need the all powerful being.

Humans thinking they have free will to make up their own shit ... well, not only will that piss off the powerful being, it might just lead humans to think they don't need the powerful being. No burdens to relieve and no reinforcements to keep alive belief in a powerful being, if they figure they don't need one. Humans might start thinking they themselves are the powerful beings when in fact, they are only culpable at best.

Humans can't seem to move beyond this powerful being because of this straggling, ignorant notion of belief in a super being outside themselves. It's their own fault... because.... well, they simply chose the wrong free will... and somewhere along the way, stubbornly stuck to it. Can't go back now, right?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say MAYBE the plan is to finally not need this super being anymore and to make up our own fucking plan. MAYBE humans are the super beings. They were advised this from the beginning of that ridiculous book. MAYBE humanity's true guilt was in giving up the assumption of their own power. Wink

Come on humans, can't we just stop dicking around and fucking evolve, already? I got shit to do. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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04-08-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
The Free Will issue shouldn't be that big of a deal to the atheist. Do any of us really think we have free will? We're kidding ourselves. As HoC so aptly likes to point out, we are all just big skin bags full of chemicals. No one has free will. Everything is determined by chemistry.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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04-08-2012, 12:55 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:54 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  The Free Will issue shouldn't be that big of a deal to the atheist. Do any of us really think we have free will? We're kidding ourselves. As HoC so aptly likes to point out, we are all just big skin bags full of chemistry. No one has free will. Everything is determined by chemicals and nervous systems.
Determined or predetermined? Consider

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04-08-2012, 12:57 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:55 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 12:54 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  The Free Will issue shouldn't be that big of a deal to the atheist. Do any of us really think we have free will? We're kidding ourselves. As HoC so aptly likes to point out, we are all just big skin bags full of chemistry. No one has free will. Everything is determined by chemicals and nervous systems.
Determined or predetermined? Consider

Just mined.

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04-08-2012, 12:58 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:47 PM)kim Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 10:38 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  So confession booths could be created.

"Fact": It was planned that humans eat from a "knowledge tree" so they would obtain another level of knowledge, without it they would never progress, they would never be able to take the next step beyond this being's control... this was part of the plan. Upon eating from this tree and accepting this "knowledge" humans see and accept "free will" - the acceptance itself is in fact choice. Of course, this choice has been directed so that everything could progress... according to plan.

FACT - If humans never ate from the tree of knowledge, they would eventually know everything there is to know anyways.

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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04-08-2012, 01:01 PM
RE: God's Three Big O's!
(04-08-2012 12:57 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(04-08-2012 12:55 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Determined or predetermined? Consider

Just mined.

v. mined, min·ing, mines
v.tr.
1.
a. To extract (ore or minerals) from the earth.
b. To dig a mine in (the earth) to obtain ore or minerals.
2.
a. To tunnel under (the earth or a surface feature).
b. To make (a tunnel) by digging.
3. To lay explosive mines in or under.
4. To attack, damage, or destroy by underhand means; subvert.
5. To delve into and make use of; exploit: mine the archives for detailed information

Hobo

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