God's Wager
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30-11-2014, 07:39 AM
RE: God's Wager
(30-11-2014 04:09 AM)Switz5678 Wrote:  
(30-11-2014 02:07 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Personally I'm not confused, either.

I just don't see enough (As defined by 'any') evidence for gods. To then think about maybe worshiping something... just on the off chance that it might, possibly exist? Yah, I find that weird but not confusing.

Much cheers to all.

For pascals its just math that he is trying to use, but he mixes it with nonmath.

Say that worshiping a god made you end up with an eternity of torment. Perhaps you go to a heaven if you don't worship. Pascal presents this in a way that appear to be pure math, but in reality he doesn't take into account all possible outcomes. The opposite of a heaven for worship concept isn't nothing, its going to hell for worshiping... or heaven for not worshiping.

Following Peebothohul’s reasoning one would have to believe either existed to even wager no?

If someone walks up to you and asks “Do you believe in Mordor?” I would think you would say, “no, it’s just a story”. But what do you have to lose? (Apply Pascal’s wager here).

That’s how it comes across to me, you want us to believe in the ridiculous “just in case the ridiculous might be real”. Facepalm

What do I have to lose? I would have to lose my powers of rational thinking before I could even wager and luckily for the human race not all of us are willing or capable of doing that.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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30-11-2014, 07:58 AM
RE: God's Wager
Pascal's wager also implies the limitations of a god that can be tricked. A lowly human can merely go through the motions and pretend to believe because of a threat of hell, not true faith, but god will not be a able to discern this.

This also applies to every so-called Christian, aren't they really believing because of the hell threat? Very few would say that they are, that's all well and good, but are you absolutely sure about that? Sure enough to BS your way past an omniscient god?

How much "fear of god" do you have that substitutes for faith and keeps your loyalty intact, all the while god is not impressed and even angry at your fear based loyalty.
He knows why you're going along with the religion, whereas no believer even understands the real faith-to-fear ratio that may very well doom you to hell even though a believer may be totally convinced of their righteousness.

Whether a Christian is willing to admit or not, you're rolling the dice even if you are an ardent believer and god really exists.
Oh and what if the Jews were right all along and there was no messiah?
You got the right god, but you believed all of that messiah crap and the war god of the old testament is extremely pissed at you for falling for the Jesus cult.

Why Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah:

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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30-11-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: God's Wager
I should have never mentioned Pascal's Wager within my OP because it has nothing to do with the actual point. Everyone knows its flaws. I was only making a minor correlation for effect.

The point of this thread is when you have a god who craves attention and worship, why would he give his potential minions but a spec of time to get their ducks in a row for an eternity of belief? This has nothing to do with OUR benefit, but rather this god's need for a pat on the back and the credit for creating everything. He's a jealous god with a bit of an inferiority complex, so why risk losing ANY candidate of worship or belief? And why have such an imbalanced scale of human lifespan vs. eternity on which to weigh the outcome?

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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