God's dad.
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17-11-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: God's dad.
(16-11-2013 10:09 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 06:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  They knew it made no sense.
They argued over the trinity for centuries, (literally).
Aquinas said if anyone said they understood it, they were lying.

(I though this thread was about Yahweh's father. Originally he had one too).
(Gramps I guess). Dodgy

Correct, from what I have found the trinity theory was decided by the Nicene Council 321-325 and 390 ad...interesting note, the scholars and priests who disagreed were banned and kicked out of the region by Emperor Constantine.

Cool.
It did make for some beautiful Latin lines though, "filioque procedit" etc ..
(I have this theory that beligion is really more about aesthetics .. at least it was for me).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-11-2013, 04:08 PM
RE: God's dad.
(17-11-2013 01:39 AM)Chippy Wrote:  
(16-11-2013 04:14 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  It is interesting that one of the early Church fathers, Marcion, believed that Yahweh was a bumbling fool of a god, and that Jesus had been sent by the true God to patch up Jehovah's botched up work. Marcion would have destroyed all of the Old Testament and most of the Gospels. One wonders how Christianity would have evolved in this scenario.

Most of what is known of Marcionism comes from Tertullian's Adversus Marcionem because none of Marcion's texts have survived.

If Tertullian is correct in his reading of Marcion then according to Marcion Yahweh is a demiurge, i.e. a World-creator god--not a "bumbling fool of a god". Under Marcionism the role of Jesus is also salvation. To Marcion, Yahweh was the tribal god of the Jews, he didn't "botch up" anything. To Marcion the OT was nothing more than a description of the actvities and demands of this Demiurge. The only part of the OT that was relevant to Christians was the Fall.

For all that, we were aware that Marcion sets up unequal gods, the one a judge, fierce and warlike, the other mild and peaceable, solely kind and supremely good. [1]

There is no known Marcionite account of the exact relationship between the Demiurge and God but since there is only one Supreme God the implication is that the Demiurge was created by God. That is to say, God delegated the task of creation to Yahweh--the Demiurge. Thus Genesis is an account of Yawhweh's demiurgical activity.

Adding a demiurge into the Christian story only makes a complicated and convoluted narrative more difficult. That seems to be one of Tertullian's arguments against Marcionism. Marcion's required rewrite of the NT would seem to corroborate this.

PS:- I know you have an aversion to substantiation and prefer to just make things up--as if that represents some virtue--so just treat my quotation of Tertullian as something I made up.

Like Krishnamurti , you seem to write a lot while adding little of substance..
As Christians hold Jehovah as an integral part of the Godhead, his tantrums and bellicose behaviour must be seen as reflecting the essential message as posited by main stream Christianity . The pacifism of Jesus largely reverses Yahweh's rantings while still,via the two testaments of Christianity, embracing the Old.
My concern is with the insanity of attempts to reconcile Jesus' alleged teaching with coercive and brutal O.T . teachings, as has been done due to His Jewish origins.
Marcion may well have had something, though in no withstanding all of the other
epistemological problems...............
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17-11-2013, 08:34 PM
RE: God's dad.
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Like Krishnamurti , you seem to write a lot while adding little of substance..

I must not be making up enough stuff. I'll try and correct that now:

--The early years of the life of Jesus of Nazareth are not covered in any detail in the NT. We learn nothing of Jesus' childhood, adolescence and early adulthood from the NT. Well, in his teenage years, Jesus operated a small but successful churro outlet.

--One of the apocryphal books of the OT is The Book of Slobs. It is a rather short book. It tells of the indolent tribe of Slobs that wandered until they found somewhere comfortable and then they just stayed in their comfy spot. That is where the term "slob" comes from.

Observe that I have no substantiation so I am meeting your standards of argumentation.
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17-11-2013, 09:54 PM
RE: God's dad.
(17-11-2013 08:34 PM)Chippy Wrote:  
(17-11-2013 04:08 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Like Krishnamurti , you seem to write a lot while adding little of substance..

I must not be making up enough stuff. I'll try and correct that now:

--The early years of the life of Jesus of Nazareth are not covered in any detail in the NT. We learn nothing of Jesus' childhood, adolescence and early adulthood from the NT. Well, in his teenage years, Jesus operated a small but successful churro outlet.

--One of the apocryphal books of the OT is The Book of Slobs. It is a rather short book. It tells of the indolent tribe of Slobs that wandered until they found somewhere comfortable and then they just stayed in their comfy spot. That is where the term "slob" comes from.

Observe that I have no substantiation so I am meeting your standards of argumentation.

It is not illegal to elaborate on the stuff you have cited.
Argumentation requires relatively 'true' premises along with logical application.
Most of the stuff I "make up" has at least some metaphorical, or logically based precedent.
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17-11-2013, 11:49 PM
RE: God's dad.
Yay, another excuse to post these videos again.








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