"God's perfect plan."
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19-06-2012, 12:32 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
All things flow from the Great Tao, but there is only stillness where there is depth. Thumbsup

Besides, how is it any sillier than me and my Gwynnies? I love my Gwynnies! Oops, sorry. Blush

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19-06-2012, 12:42 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(19-06-2012 12:32 AM)houseofcantor Wrote:  All things flow from the Great Tao, but there is only stillness where there is depth. Thumbsup

Besides, how is it any sillier than me and my Gwynnies? I love my Gwynnies! Oops, sorry. Blush
Yet she comes closer to perfection than any silly YHWH.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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25-06-2012, 01:24 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(18-06-2012 07:06 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Not to be disrespectful to KC... I think he is the nicest theist I know, but there is something greatly annoying, or stupid when he says something along with the title of this thread.

Don't worry, you're not going to offend me. And, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.

Quote:This is just my rant on this subject, So if you don't want to read, feel free to just comment.
Everytime I see this phrase, or when KC alludes to it, I want to tear my hair out. I want to scream
At the computer because I am greatly annoyed at this simple thing.
First of all, it is irrefutable. There is absolutely no way to deny this while backing it up with evidence, because there is none that can be exempt from this phrase.

It's not meant to be refuted.

It's apples and oranges as far as opinions go. I have an acceptance that God is perfect; likewise, you accept that God is a fairy tale.

The irrefutable nature of this goes way beyond that simple phrase. The two opinions are simply not compatible on any level; therefore, debates are void.

Quote:I use an analogy.... A guy knows, or at least greatly infers that there is no cake coming in his lifetime, but his one friend keeps insisting that a cake will come eventually. No matter how much the person can argue about the cake, he can't prove that it won't come. Especially if the other person makes it ambigious enough. What I am trying to convey is the constant ambigity of this phrase... The simple part of how it can't be refuted, and is pointless to try.

Your analogy is comparative superficially, but it falls short because the implication is that the being offering the cake is fallible. If the being is infallible (like God), then the promise of cake is without contestation. Because of the being's infallible nature, the cake HAS to come. It is not possible for it to not come.

If the cake has the slightest chance to not come, then the being offering the cake is fallible.

Quote:Now, KC thinks life is preplanned by God, so Freewill is out of the window... Trying to prove freewill is about the same as the cake thing either, it isn't possible.( Freewill in the sense most of us are accustomed to.)

This is one of the reasons why I hate KC's theology. It takes away the responsiblity anyone bears for their actions. By saying that God made them do it,or he "Planned " it, takes away all responsiblity that person has for his actions, good or bad.

This is true.

Quote:Essentially, Hitler is completely innocent of the Holocaust, because it was God that planned him to do it. Does anybody but me see how monstorious this idea can be? This also takes away the ery good things humans deserve credit for, like discoveries, or charity, or love.

It strips humanity of all it's deeds, and makes them unaccountable for their own actions.... This is an immoral thought, especially if any immoral person would adopt it.

Could you imagine Hitler saying such a thing?

I don't know... I just find it very frustrating when you see this type of view and are powerless to at least combat it......

This is also true. In my theology, humanity doesn't exist for God, it exists because of God.

This means that humanity isn't as important as it thinks it is. Humanity is here by the grace of God.

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25-06-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 01:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I have an acceptance that God is perfect; likewise, you accept that God is a fairy tale.
No. This misstatement is also the basis for the Egor-like statement that atheism is a religion. Atheists don't 'accept ' that God is a fairy tale. We see no evidence for the existence of God, therefore don't accept the assertion of existence. Huge difference.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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25-06-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 01:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 01:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I have an acceptance that God is perfect; likewise, you accept that God is a fairy tale.
No. This misstatement is also the basis for the Egor-like statement that atheism is a religion. Atheists don't 'accept ' that God is a fairy tale. We see no evidence for the existence of God, therefore don't accept the assertion of existence. Huge difference.

You're right. I said what I said for simplicity's sake.

Doesn't change the premise, though.

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25-06-2012, 02:32 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
Godwin's Law'd your own thread right from the OP. I *like* it Big Grin
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25-06-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 02:32 PM)morondog Wrote:  Godwin's Law'd your own thread right from the OP. I *like* it Big Grin

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25-06-2012, 07:07 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
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25-06-2012, 07:11 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
Fucking Woof... when you get het up, your quoting skills go ka-blooey. Tongue

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25-06-2012, 07:13 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 07:11 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking Woof... when you get het up, your quoting skills go ka-blooey. Tongue

Must be what happens when you stop drinking. Tongue

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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