"God's perfect plan."
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25-06-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 07:13 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(25-06-2012 07:11 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking Woof... when you get het up, your quoting skills go ka-blooey. Tongue


Must be what happens when you stop drinking. Tongue


Stick with common sense Erx, not the path that leads to fear, misery, hatred of self and others, gross delusion and perhaps ultimate insanity......................... May Jehovah choke on this the smell of his slaughtered lambs... Drooling
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25-06-2012, 07:47 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
You cant argue a belief. It's a no win my friend. Even when the Bible is riddled with mistakes and wrote by man. The whole thing is based off mythology and you cant argue with stupid. It's a waste of time.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson
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25-06-2012, 08:02 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2012 08:05 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 07:47 PM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  You cant argue a belief. It's a no win my friend. Even when the Bible is riddled with mistakes and wrote by man. The whole thing is based off mythology and you cant argue with stupid. It's a waste of time.


Yes, despite the myth, which is certainly there, I object to the Calvinist mythical claim that a perfect/loving god would create animals and humans to suffer immensely to then put some of them through eternal torture. This is a gross contradiction in terms, tacked on to all the other bullshit.

This has been K.C' SPIELS FOR thousands OF THREADS along with a bit of diversionary stuff.

It is not the contradictions, myths, stupidities that bug me so much as people adoring WHAT THEY SEE AS A POWERFUl but monsterous god just to ingratiate themselves and attempt to confuse others.
Arguably some Satanists come across as being more honest.
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25-06-2012, 08:26 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
Stating that a god is sovereign or stating that a god is perfect or that his plan is perfect doesn't make it true.
Also a perfect plan in which 9 million kids die before they reach age 5 doesn't sound like a very moral plan.
A perfect plan that allows people to rape, murder & torture other people doesn't sound like a very moral plan.
A perfect plan that sets up predators that must kill other animals in order to live doesn't sound like a very moral plan.

An immoral something cannot be a perfect anything.

The way of the world in terms of life and death and torture and violence are not mysterious actions of a perfect plan.
They are the delusions hatched by gullible people who can't tell the difference between good and evil.

If they could, they wouldn't worship a god who would lovingly throw a good atheist under a bus while befriending a child rapist who is a holy priest.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-06-2012, 08:38 PM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2012 08:43 PM by Mr Woof.)
RE: "God's perfect plan."
Hey K.C. yOUV'E NEVER SERIOUSLY DEBATED ME ON ANYTHING!

hOW ABOUT WHY IS gOD LOVE? --------------------- duh just cos!

&............................................................................​.

wHY NEED GOD TORTURE HIS OFFSPRING ETERNALLY To PROVE HIS WORTH?

EAGERLE Y WAITING................................................. Drinking Beverage
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26-06-2012, 12:59 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
If god is perfect then why did he create? A perfect being has no needs.

If he is all knowing then what point would there be in creating a plan?

If he cannot be understood by human beings, then why think about him at all?

Member of the Cult of Reason

The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
Bitcion:1DNeQMswMdvx4xLPP6qNE7RkeTwXGC7Bzp
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26-06-2012, 05:32 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 01:24 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:This is just my rant on this subject, So if you don't want to read, feel free to just comment.
Everytime I see this phrase, or when KC alludes to it, I want to tear my hair out. I want to scream
At the computer because I am greatly annoyed at this simple thing.
First of all, it is irrefutable. There is absolutely no way to deny this while backing it up with evidence, because there is none that can be exempt from this phrase.

It's not meant to be refuted.

It's apples and oranges as far as opinions go. I have an acceptance that God is perfect; likewise, you accept that God is a fairy tale.

The irrefutable nature of this goes way beyond that simple phrase. The two opinions are simply not compatible on any level; therefore, debates are void.

KC you're arguing that there are two competing presuppositions at play. I would instead argue that there are two competing hypotheses at play. The usual means of differentiating between two otherwise perfectly good hypotheses is to determine what each hypothesis would predict and to verify which set of predictions stand up to scrutiny and evidence. Two hypotheses do not need to be "compatible" for one to be shown true while the other is shown to be false.

I guess each side could take the easy route and say that the universe that one would predict based on their favoured hypothesis is the one we are in now. Since we know what the universe is actually like (at least one some level) it's hard to do the scientific thing and predict then verify. However, we can at least point out possible inconsistencies.

I guess the critical thing here on your side is this claim of perfection, because it seems useless (at least to me) to describe something as perfect unless you can state in what way it is perfect. What does perfection mean when it is applied to God? What would this form of perfection mean to the universe we exist within now? What would it mean to the end state of the universe? How does this perfection relate to the predictions present in the Bible about how our reality will end? It seems to me that by human standards both now and the end state are highly imperfect, and the definition of perfect as applied to God seems to have no descriptive or predictive power. As such I struggle to understand what the term is intended to mean, as it impacts on the relationship between God and creation.

What's the blind spot in the fairytale argument? There must be one you can point to that I'm missing. What prediction does the fairytale hypothesis make that is clearly wrong or at least naive? To me it seems to relate clearly to reality, at least as we know it from the point of the big bang to the present day. The natural explanation of the universe seems to predict what we have today, or at least a sufficiently high probability of it that what we have today would more or less appear in some corner of the universe.

To me the current and predicted end states for the universe seem to clearly invalidate the perfect god hypothesis, while I have nothing to refute the fairytale hypothesis. Help me out here. What am I missing? Is it just that you have a radically different idea about what the end state of the universe will be than I do based on the Bible?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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26-06-2012, 05:42 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(26-06-2012 12:59 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  If god is perfect then why did he create? A perfect being has no needs.

If he is all knowing then what point would there be in creating a plan?

If he cannot be understood by human beings, then why think about him at all?
Don't be asking them difficult questions. Nobody will be talking to ya. Big Grin



Yeah, I wuz created to suffer for my Gwynnies, cause god's a sadistic fuck. Happens alla time with the if/then loop, when you give god identity. Simple solution is of course, don't anthropomorphize. Thumbsup

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26-06-2012, 05:04 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(25-06-2012 07:11 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking Woof... when you get het up, your quoting skills go ka-blooey. Tongue


Re your ka-blooey comment; I mistakenly took it for a compliment, hence the "like"

Yes, I am rather agitated presently, in part as a result of the lunatic fringe Egor, K.C et al especially as the latter refuses to debate me.

Just as well probably as my B.P. soars when trying to interpret his pathetic writings.

That said, I don't think I really fit in very well here, or anywhere for that matter (just banned from Buddhism without

Boundaries) so am contemplating a very long break. My blood pressure is also a consideration.

To my friends, & I include you, along with G.M, Aurora, Erx, Lady Jane, Anjele, Bemore and a few others I wish you well in your secular pursuits and even sane (is that an oxymoron) metaphysical interests.

May pop in again, quite some time later, when I feel a bit better........by then I imagine K.C will be up in the 70s.

Good luck and enjoy the forum.......................Mr Woof~~~
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26-06-2012, 05:09 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
If everything is caused by God, and God controls everything, then the voice in my head is not me, it is God, you are God, my dog is God, the banana in my fruit bowl is God. The scientific discovers made by man, were not by man, because God is man.
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