"God's perfect plan."
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27-06-2012, 08:13 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 07:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 07:31 PM)impr0vise Wrote:  This raises a question that I really wrestled with before I completely lost faith in The Bible and began to identify as agnostic: Biblically speaking, is sin really not possible in Heaven? We're told that Lucifer was an angel who resided in heaven with God but comitted the sin of desiring equality with, or superiority to, God. He was thus kicked out of Heaven and assigned the uber-permanent position of torturing souls for eternity. Now, if one believes that God is never-changing, it only follows that sin is still POSSIBLE in Heaven--just as it was in Lucifer's day--only it isn't TOLERATED. In other words, one strike and you're out. To me, that seemed like entirely too much pressure to qualify Heaven s a paradise.
slow down son, we can't have rational logic now can we.

But I think the idea is that non-sinners who go to heaven continue to be non-sinners in heaven thus a place free of sin
which of course comes back to, WHY NOT JUST DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
What if God did that FOR SCIENCE?!

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27-06-2012, 08:37 PM (This post was last modified: 27-06-2012 08:43 PM by houseofcantor.)
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 07:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  slow down son, we can't have rational logic now can we.

Like 21-year-olds calling peeps "son." That's fucking rational... Dodgy

(27-06-2012 07:31 PM)impr0vise Wrote:  This raises a question that I really wrestled with before I completely lost faith in The Bible and began to identify as agnostic: Biblically speaking, is sin really not possible in Heaven? We're told that Lucifer was an angel who resided in heaven with God but comitted the sin of desiring equality with, or superiority to, God. He was thus kicked out of Heaven and assigned the uber-permanent position of torturing souls for eternity. Now, if one believes that God is never-changing, it only follows that sin is still POSSIBLE in Heaven--just as it was in Lucifer's day--only it isn't TOLERATED. In other words, one strike and you're out. To me, that seemed like entirely too much pressure to qualify Heaven s a paradise.

That shit comes outta the apocrypha. Supposedly it's not part of the canon - non-scriptural - yet everybody knows "Lucifer got cast outta heaven." Dodgy

If you give a shit, it's not "no sin in heaven" so much as there is no desire to sin. It's all peace, love, and small furry animals.

If you don't give a shit, carry on.

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27-06-2012, 11:36 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 08:13 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 07:55 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  slow down son, we can't have rational logic now can we.

But I think the idea is that non-sinners who go to heaven continue to be non-sinners in heaven thus a place free of sin
which of course comes back to, WHY NOT JUST DO THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!
What if God did that FOR SCIENCE?!
Elaborate I don't follow?

Quote: Like 21-year-olds calling peeps "son." That's fucking rational... [Image: dodgy.gif]
Oh come now John, makes you feel young again. Do I dare say it's probably been a while since you felt like that. Tongue
I'm joking of course, you're young.................. on the inside. Big Grin

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27-06-2012, 11:54 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 11:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Oh come now John, makes you feel young again. Do I dare say it's probably been a while since you felt like that. Tongue
I'm joking of course, you're young.................. on the inside. Big Grin

My kid says that "son" crap. He's like five days younger than you. Tongue

It's not a pet peeve. More like a wild animal peeve. That comes in the back yard. And gets shot. With a twelve gauge. Repeatedly. Evil_monster

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28-06-2012, 12:00 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 11:54 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 11:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Oh come now John, makes you feel young again. Do I dare say it's probably been a while since you felt like that. Tongue
I'm joking of course, you're young.................. on the inside. Big Grin

My kid says that "son" crap. He's like five days younger than you. Tongue

It's not a pet peeve. More like a wild animal peeve. That comes in the back yard. And gets shot. With a twelve gauge. Repeatedly. Evil_monster
Lol. Oh John, you crack me up son. Big Grin

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28-06-2012, 12:18 AM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 11:36 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(27-06-2012 08:13 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  What if God did that FOR SCIENCE?!
Elaborate I don't follow?

Quote: Like 21-year-olds calling peeps "son." That's fucking rational... [Image: dodgy.gif]
Oh come now John, makes you feel young again. Do I dare say it's probably been a while since you felt like that. Tongue
I'm joking of course, you're young.................. on the inside. Big Grin
It was a lame joke about heaven and hell atheism and theism, and God's test of faith, like he created us for some kind of highschool science fair project.

I forget to let my thought process come out through my keyboard sometimes.

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28-06-2012, 01:18 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 07:29 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  So what you are saying is that God created hell to make a distinction between good and evil?

No. Hell was created for the non-elect... it has nothing to do with making a distinction.

Quote:I was under the impression he is omnipotent, why does God need such a mechanism to know right from wrong if he is all knowing?

That has nothing to do with Him being all-knowing. He doesn't have a mechanism He uses to separate right from wrong. There is simply elect and non-elect.

Quote:And if not him, to teach us? But we don't know until we die so how can that be a lesson for us during life?

He does teach His elect.

Quote:Why not just instill the knowledge of what is good and what is evil in us in the first place. There is no point for evil if you can only create good, if someone had a choice and still choice to create evil we would call that psychotic. What is the point in murder, rape, war etc.. God cares enough to kill us off with a great flood to save us from bad things or sends his son for our sins but does absolutely nothing during 1914-1945?

We do have the knowledge of good and evil.

Again, God's plan was Christ. God's plan and Christ always existed; therefore, the plan was for Christ to have a purpose and an inheritance. His purpose was to impute His righteous on the elect, and His inheritance is humanity.

Quote:And if humanity isn't important to God then why create them? Seems rather pointless to me. He created us, he gave us the bible, sent things to save our sins etc.. seemingly intervened many times (Moses as another example). How can you say he doesn't care? Sure he probably doesn't care after the period in which the bible was written but again I thought he was all powerful, shouldn't someone perfect not just "get bored"?

And again, if he doesn't care why pray? why go to church? why teach people on Sundays? Why do we even have to believe in him in the first place if he doesn't care? The bible says the only way to heaven is through his salvation or whatever. So the only way through the pearly gates is to recognize he exists? Sounds like a 2year old wanting mommy and daddy's attention if you ask me. Not someone who doesn't care.

Not really a fan of people putting words in my mouth. That's not what I said at all.

I said humanity isn't as important as we think we are. We exist because of Christ. Christ doesn't exist because of us.

The elect are important to God because they are His Son's inheritance. They love us and guide us and give us grace.

We pray to communicate with God.
We go to church to be with others.

Please stop jumping to extreme conclusions with what I say. I don't ask much, but if you want to do this with me, I just ask that you are fair.

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28-06-2012, 01:33 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
KC - like the dog in your video gif, repeating the same tripe over and over and accomplishing nothing.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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28-06-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(27-06-2012 08:31 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  That's under the assumption that humanity is as important as Christ. It isn't. Humanity happened because of Christ; therefore, we don't hold as much significance as we think we do. That being said, if God granted full justice then none of us would stand a chance; however, since He also grants grace, He chose to save some of us.

If He just stopped the damned from being born, then there would be no distinction from elect and non-elect and no consequences: which means, that salvation is pointless ergo Christ is pointless.

God created Hell because there needed to be a place for the damned. There needed to be the damned because of Christ's purpose.
[/quote]

The promise of "salvation" was pretty clear ... it came from God ... it came from Christ.

I mean, if only the "elect" are the ones to be saved... though it was promised for all.

I can believe whatever gets me through the night and it won't matter.

Not that any of it does matter... tell me again why God is not a liar? Dodgy

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28-06-2012, 01:59 PM
RE: "God's perfect plan."
(28-06-2012 01:43 PM)kim Wrote:  The promise of "salvation" was pretty clear ... it came from God ... it came from Christ.

I mean, if only the "elect" are the ones to be saved... though it was promised for all.

I can believe whatever gets me through the night and it won't matter.

Not that any of it does matter... tell me again why God is not a liar? Dodgy

Because salvation wasn't promised to all.

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