God's voice??
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08-01-2017, 08:46 AM
RE: God's voice??
(08-01-2017 08:37 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Nobody in human history has ever talked to a god or deity or entity or ghost polytheistic or monotheistic. If someone is claiming to talk to the super natural, they are fooling themselves, deluded because they don't want to face their finite reality, or the are deluded AND mentally ill.

If someone you ran into walking down a sidewalk was claiming, "My dog told me to build a monument to Underdog", sane people would go, "Ok,,,,,,, that's nice.... do you need your meds adjusted"

Yes thee above is blasphemous, and I am sure it offends many. But it is not meant one bit as a call to force the end of religion, but cold water on your face to get more people to consider why they reject the deity/god/supernatural claims of others, but not their own.
We cannot technically make a 100% confident knowledge claim about the whole of human history in this regard anymore than we can technically do so for the existence of (inherently non-falsifiable) invisible gods. But the odds you are correct are so ridiculously high as to render the distinction little more than pedantic. No one has ever provided good reason to believe such claims and unless and until someone does, your semantic shortcut is entirely justified.

Is it blasphemous? To some, doubtless. I would not want to utter such things openly in a country with enforceable blasphemy laws. Sadly, for many, "cold water on your face" equates to " a call to force the end of religion", and indeed often to a personal existential threat. Religion has long been accustomed to such repression of dissent as to not have had to routinely worry about "cold water" so they see it as a very bad omen indeed.

Do keep on doing that ;-)
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08-01-2017, 09:24 AM
RE: God's voice??
(08-01-2017 08:37 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(07-01-2017 11:22 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  When I was Catholic I was often told by other kids that God talked to them. When I asked what did he say they would say "well it wasn't verbal." Or "that he loves us." Never how to bring peace to the world never something more profound like the nature of dark matter or something. But I felt left out. I felt there was something wrong with me. So to fit in I would say that I heard him too.

As I got older i would often talk out load to myself. And pretend it was God speaking threw me. To me. But it would never tell me anything I didn't already know. I still talk to myself but now I debate ideas. Imaging scenarios of conversations that I may have.
Yes, this was my experience exactly, only it was in fundamentalist Christianity. We had a ritual called "testimony time" in which our small congregation was invited, usually at Wednesday night prayer meeting, to testify of something that had happened in the past week that illustrated that our faith was living and vital, our relationship with god interactive, and that it wasn't all just bullshit. Someone had to testify to something and break the uncomfortable silence, as the silence testified to the sheer mundaneness of our existences and the profound indifference of god. So someone would invariably lead off with some story, by turns highly decorated ordinariness, or complete bullshit, but occasionally something actually supernatural-sounding. The latter, I'm guessing, was often real hallucinations, the rest was just trying to force a result. All of it meant nothing, but it was a shared fantasy that we all engaged in once a week to "testify" to god's interventionist nature.

That was pretty routine when I attended church as a Christian. It was common for someone to take the microphone and get up in front of the congregation to give a testimony about some alleged miracle.

At some point, this shit started getting really annoying, I could see it was all confirmation bias and the whole practice was fraudulent.

The pastor would let these people run the service, and it was invariably the attention whores, the egotistical and the nut jobs that were trotting up to the front to strut their "spirituality".

The ones that were sincere that spoke up, they would always relay mundane things that had easily explainable natural explanations.

Something like- "I had no money to get gas, so I went to church and someone gave me money!" Facepalm

All I knew was that I was sick of hearing this crap and I wanted to go to lunch, I didn't want to hear another nutjob blather on about their alleged miracles and continue to delay the end of the service.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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08-01-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: God's voice??
(18-12-2016 07:23 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I don't know if it's a defense some of you guys normally come across, but now I have some theist friends who tell me they have heard God talk to them before. (In their heads, I'm assuming)

That is all I needed to read.

These people are bullshit artists.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-01-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: God's voice??
http://www.gallup.com/poll/7582/religiou...faith.aspx

One of the most profound and life-changing experiences for many people -- yet one that has been little explored through scientific research -- is the "religious experience," a period or moment of deep religious insight or awakening in one's life.

In a June 2002 Gallup survey*, Gallup asked respondents to rate the statement, " I have had a profound religious experience or awakening that changed the direction of my life," on a scale from 0 to 5, with 0 standing for "does not apply at all" and 5 for "applies completely." Forty-one percent of Americans -- which projects to about 80 million adults nationwide -- said the statement completely applies to them.

----
I hope this isn't contagious.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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09-01-2017, 12:00 PM
RE: God's voice??
(08-01-2017 12:58 PM)Cheerful Charlie Wrote:  http://www.gallup.com/poll/7582/religiou...faith.aspx

One of the most profound and life-changing experiences for many people -- yet one that has been little explored through scientific research -- is the "religious experience," a period or moment of deep religious insight or awakening in one's life.

In a June 2002 Gallup survey*, Gallup asked respondents to rate the statement, " I have had a profound religious experience or awakening that changed the direction of my life," on a scale from 0 to 5, with 0 standing for "does not apply at all" and 5 for "applies completely." Forty-one percent of Americans -- which projects to about 80 million adults nationwide -- said the statement completely applies to them.

----
I hope this isn't contagious.
I think of that, looking at it more generically, as having a "tipping point" sort of insight where you let go of some mental construct and take a bit of a "leap forward". That would happen to people from time to time anyway, with or without the emotional content that would make you refer to it as "profound" or "awakening" in nature. Religion is good at coming along and hijacking something like that and claiming to be the sole source of it and the sole arbiter of the legitimacy of such subjective / transcendent experiences. It is akin to how they hijack societal morality and claim to be its inventor and protector. Such claims do not impress me.

My concern about this is the framing of the question as "religious" and "profound" ... if that 41% are being honest about what they attribute their "tipping point" moments to, then it is a bit concerning. However my guess is that at least half of them are kidding themselves.

When I was an evangelical, if you had asked me this question I would have replied in the affirmative because I'm SUPPOSED to. The reality is that I had a very intellectual, emotionally empty experience of conversion as a child of not quite six years old and had heard basically ever since that this experience is SUPPOSED to be profound and moving and life-changing so I would report it as it was SUPPOSED to be and not admit even to myself the totally prosaic nature of it. It was sold to me as almost a business transaction and that's the way I embraced it. I can now admit that to myself and to others but at one point in my life would not have admitted it to save my own life. It would have opened the door to doubt, and one mustn't EVER do that, you DURST not!
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09-01-2017, 02:24 PM
RE: God's voice??
It's easy enough to whip people into a religious frenzy and then for people to exhibit extreme behavior they take for some species of religious experience. Along with all the spontaneous anomolous experiences that happen to people.


For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Blessing


This sort of weirdness has been part and parcel of religion in America since the Great Awakening nonsense. And of course you can go back to the dark ages to all sorts of bizarre religious manias that periodically sweep through Christiandom.

Pentecostal babbling in tongues and other manifestations of religious experience is not dead by any means.

When I shake my ignore file, I can hear them buzzing!

Cheerful Charlie
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09-01-2017, 02:38 PM
RE: God's voice??
(18-12-2016 07:23 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I don't know if it's a defense some of you guys normally come across, but now I have some theist friends who tell me they have heard God talk to them before. (In their heads, I'm assuming)

Of course, that leads me to wonder why God doesn't up and talk to anyone else who's obviously straying from the right path...

In real life, if someone from "authority" has a serious pow wow with you, it would make sense to ask for credentials and to call up via an alternative channel in order to verify those credentials.

Christians believe that Satan is the great deceiver. But apparently if they "hear"a voice in their head and they get happy feelings then it must have been god, because Satan can't give someone happy feelings???
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02-07-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: God's voice??
(18-12-2016 07:23 AM)Diddlyboop Wrote:  I don't know if it's a defense some of you guys normally come across, but now I have some theist friends who tell me they have heard God talk to them before. (In their heads, I'm assuming)
Primarily in his 66 love letters. [Image: straight.gif] 1 Co 2:14
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02-07-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: God's voice??
(18-12-2016 09:36 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Apparently you have to tune into the right frequency to hear him.

Ears to hear. [Image: ears.gif]
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02-07-2017, 03:29 PM
RE: God's voice??
Christ will you at least stick to your own threads you insufferable twit?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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