God was not in Sandy Hook
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02-01-2013, 05:55 PM (This post was last modified: 05-01-2013 07:02 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
God was not in Sandy Hook
I just got into a short debate with a Christian today. He told me that the massacre in Sandy Hook Elementary happened because we have kicked God out of our schools so he wasn't there to protect those Children.

My reply was this:

Me: Is god omniscient?

"Yes."

Me: OK, so he knew what was happening, even knew that guy was going to drive to the school and shoot kids. Was God on the road where the guy was driving?

"Freewill - he had to let the guy do it, stopping it beforehand would have robbed the man of freewill."

Me: Is god omnipotent?

"Yes."

Me: So, god was on the road, saw the guy, knew what he was going to do, and is omnipotent, which means he has the power to go into Sandy Hook Elementary regardless of our silly little human rules. He's omnipotent, so he could stop it but he chose not to?

"We don't want him in our schools so he followed our rules even though he didn't have to."

Me: If you had the absolute guaranteed power to stop that massacre, wouldn't you stop it? If we had stupid rules about letting you in that school, wouldn't you have gone in and used your power to save those kids? Would you just sit there and watch them all die?

"No, I might have stopped it if I had the power, but I'm not god, I don't know his plan."

Me: Is your morality better than god's? You know the right thing to do. If you were there, outside, watching it happen, and had all the power to stop that guy without fail, without risk, you would have saved those kids, even if there were rules to ban you from that school. But god wouldn't do the same thing?

"Freewill again, god had to let the guy do what he was going to do."

Me: He couldn't rob the guy of freewill so he had to let him do his thing, but why not stop him after one kid was dead or maybe 2 or 3 to establish the pattern, why let him shoot all 28 people -

"Still freewill; if god stopped him any time he would be taking away the man's freewill."

Me: Fine, I won't argue that, but please stop telling me that god let this happen because we won't let him in our schools when you just told me, yourself, that it has nothing to do with that and everything to do with freewill.

Blame it on freewill if you want, but don't blame it on separation of church from the government funded schools. God was clearly in Sandy Hook despite our legislation.

He actually agreed with me. It's rare that I win a debate with a theist.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
I think He was, the sadistic asshole.
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02-01-2013, 06:09 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
Nicely done, AS.

[Image: 3d366d5c-72a0-4228-b835-f404c2970188_zps...1381867723]
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02-01-2013, 06:16 PM (This post was last modified: 02-01-2013 06:25 PM by Human Being.)
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
If your friends premise is correct, then his perfect, all-wise and all-loving god shares the exact same modus operandi as the killer himself: He wasn't getting enough love and attention, so he decided to take it out on a school full of innocent kids and teachers.

The Creator of the Universe and Adam Lanza seem to have very similar insecurities and ways of dealing with them. Therefore, if he approves of god's handling of the situation, and believes it to be moral, then he must also feel the same way about the actions of Lanza himself, or risk cognitive dissonance.

I would have pointed out that it sounds like your friend worships something more akin to a demon, than an all-loving god.

"To hate man and worship God seems to be the sum of all creeds." — Robert Ingersoll
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02-01-2013, 07:15 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
Why does the Christian god always resemble a petulant child, and why is such behavior seen as being the most virtuous good?


It sounds like this god needs a spanking, quite badly.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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02-01-2013, 07:17 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
It's sad most theists don't seem to understand that so many of them speak out both sides of their butt.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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02-01-2013, 07:28 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
(02-01-2013 07:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  It's sad most theists don't seem to understand that so many of them speak out both sides of their butt.

Both sides? You're far too kind. If you could hook up a weathervane, I'd bet that sucker would spin so fast it would take off and maintain a high orbit.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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02-01-2013, 07:36 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
(02-01-2013 07:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  It's sad most theists don't seem to understand that so many of them speak out both sides of their butt.


If people see that behavior all around them all their life from all figures of authority, and supposed role models, like the church (e.g. the Vatican) or politics (e.g. Washington) then that is their standard. Their frame of reference. That is 'normal' to them. They know no better. They are literally ignorant and consequently comprehensively challenged. I.o.w.: they were bamboozled and brainwashed, and fell for it.
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02-01-2013, 08:10 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
(02-01-2013 07:28 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  It's sad most theists don't seem to understand that so many of them speak out both sides of their butt.

Both sides? You're far too kind. If you could hook up a weathervane, I'd bet that sucker would spin so fast it would take off and maintain a high orbit.

Lol yes, there are many who could. There are a few I consider level-headed and somewhat grounded, but they seem to be the exception and not the rule. :/
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02-01-2013, 08:12 PM
RE: God was not in Sandy Hook
(02-01-2013 07:36 PM)Janus Wrote:  
(02-01-2013 07:17 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  It's sad most theists don't seem to understand that so many of them speak out both sides of their butt.


If people see that behavior all around them all their life from all figures of authority, and supposed role models, like the church (e.g. the Vatican) or politics (e.g. Washington) then that is their standard. Their frame of reference. That is 'normal' to them. They know no better. They are literally ignorant and consequently comprehensively challenged. I.o.w.: they were bamboozled and brainwashed, and fell for it.

True, it's their "world view" that seems greatly skewed.
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