Poll: Are gods a subset of magic?
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Gods and Magic
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22-07-2014, 04:50 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
CiderThinker, are you talking about the concept of gods or the abilities that gods supposedly have?

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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22-07-2014, 05:00 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
Certainly the former - and possibly the latter - your question was a little vague on that distinction so I'd have to consider more in depth look at it


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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22-07-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
I apologize, my question may not have been clear. I'm trying to understand what you were meaning by gods. But I suppose differentiating the concept of a god and the things it can do might not be too useful here.

So are you saying divinity would a different branch of the supernatural tree than magic?

(btw, I could imagine this discussion being about a video game now..)

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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23-07-2014, 10:48 AM
RE: Gods and Magic
I don't think either is a subset of the other.

Argument 1:
- Neither magic nor gods exist.
- Therefore, there are no sets, let alone subsets concerning magic and gods.

Argument 2:
- Conceptually, magic could exist without gods.
- Conceptually, gods could exist without magic (although it might be tough to defend the idea that they would be gods - but, for example, super-strength might make them god like to some while not being especially magical).
- Therefore, conceptually they are separate.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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23-07-2014, 12:17 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
I would consider super (herculean) strength magical unless it had an explanation in the physical world (such as the strength of an ape).

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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23-07-2014, 12:30 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
What about, for example, an alien species that is simply much stronger naturally; even as strong as Hercules. One finds it's way to Earth. Would it be magic? I don't think so.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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23-07-2014, 03:11 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
Hmm, well I would assume that their strength could be tested and explained through experimentation or investigation. If their physical structure gave us no way to understand their strength...then magic is a possibility. Or maybe a missing piece in our understandings of biology.

Essentially if they were able to break physical laws, such as lifting a 1000 lb stone with only 1/10th of the force it should require, then I would probably consider it magic, assuming we couldn't find a natural explanation for the phenomena.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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23-07-2014, 03:16 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
(23-07-2014 03:11 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Hmm, well I would assume that their strength could be tested and explained through experimentation or investigation. If their physical structure gave us no way to understand their strength...then magic is a possibility. Or maybe a missing piece in our understandings of biology.

Essentially if they were able to break physical laws, such as lifting a 1000 lb stone with only 1/10th of the force it should require, then I would probably consider it magic, assuming we couldn't find a natural explanation for the phenomena.

So you're saying if you don't understand it, that it must be....god? I mean magic?

*grin*
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23-07-2014, 03:22 PM
RE: Gods and Magic
Haha, if it is magic..then it is magic. Magic being the ability to supernaturally affect the world.

For instance the existence of a baby that can lift a motor vehicle. Physically this cannot and should not happen. Thus, magic baby. I personally don't believe that magic is possible, or that phenomena exist without some explanation (whether known or unknown), but we are talking about events that would break our understanding of the physical world...which enters the realm of the supernatural, i.e. the realm of magic. Of course if it could all be explained then it would not be magic.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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