Going Back To Faith.
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13-12-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 08:56 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Sometimes being in a church doesn't mean "I believe in those things" so much as it means "I'm with those people", and sometimes coming back to the fold is less about returning to the shepherd and more about rejoining the flock.

This statement is brilliant. I love using analogies to communicate ideas to others, and endeavor to do so, and this really nails the concept. Nicely done Reltzik. Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-12-2015, 09:10 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
Honestly, I think it is analogous to alcohol or drugs. I have never been addicted to either but I imagine it is just like that. I have been addicted to other things and I know when I try to give them up I feel a real psychological need for them. I think it is the same with faith. We all have a real psychological need for a comprehensive knowledge of the world, a philosophy. Religion gives that. It"s an irrational, canned philosophy, but it fills that need in all of us. To abandon it and strike out on one's own is terrifying. All it takes is for one bad thing to happen and it is easy to revert back to that comfortable state of being a believer in, essentially, a father that is looking out for you. Similarly, when one is stressed or going through a hard time it is easy to go back to some pattern of behavior, such as overeating, smoking and the like, for that false feeling of comfort. That was my experience with "God". I distinctly remember the feeling of wanting back in. It took a long time and much skull sweat to get to the point where I could say confidently and with full knowledge that there was no God and that I was fully capable of living without that crutch. Now life is much better. Thank God for rational philosophy.Tongue

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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13-12-2015, 09:40 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2015 09:43 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Going Back To Faith.
Thanks for the suggestions so far. I'll mull them over for a while.

An immediate thought from Dom's, Anj's and Reltzy's comments might be that I've misinterpreted 'faith'.

I took it to be that the person has reverted to using an unreliable epistemology (for whatever reason(s)) but they could have meant that they have come back to A Faith.

I'll read the rest and then sleep on it and come back to the other responses tomorrow.

Thanks for your help TTA ... it's appreciated.

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13-12-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
I would think it would be a combination of social pressure and return to a form of self-soothing that has worked before.

I'm an agnostic who finds god (at least the god who's personally involved with humanity) to be morally repulsive, so for me it's easy to stay on the atheist side--since even if god existed, I wouldn't worship it. So I have chosen to act as if god does not exist.

However, agnostics who are simply not convinced of the existence of god, but who can conceive of this god as a loving, benevolent one, may at some point turn or return to the belief side. Such believers admit that there is no proof for their god, but have chosen to act as though that god exists.

And if most of one's close friends and relatives are ardent believers, there is social pressure as well. Some believers are live-and-let-live with their loved ones, but many are not. Believing the same way makes the relationships less fraught.
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13-12-2015, 09:56 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
Like you DLJ, I am on the outside. I can suggest that it is a combination of weakness, loneliness, and hearing/feeling a familiar mantra that turns people back.
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13-12-2015, 10:16 AM
Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I can’t understand it either. They must not have been True Atheists TM?

Did you just create the No True Atheist Fallacy?


DLJ, your Star Wars analogy is interesting, but perhaps not strong enough to compare to the experience of a Believer/Non-Believer/Believer phenomenon.

Perhaps a better example would be that of a man who left a bad marriage, moved to a country where he could live with multiple young, Asian beauties, then decided to return to the homeland and get back together with his former wife.

Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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13-12-2015, 10:31 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 10:16 AM)Erxomai Wrote:  ...
DLJ, your Star Wars analogy is interesting, but perhaps not strong enough to compare to the experience of a Believer/Non-Believer/Believer phenomenon.

Perhaps a better example would be that of a man who left a bad marriage, moved to a country where he could live with multiple young, Asian beauties, then decided to return to the homeland and get back together with his former wife.

Drinking Beverage

That's it!

That's the answer I was looking for! Now, I understand.

Conclusion: Going back to Jane Faith is utter insanity.

Hobo

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13-12-2015, 11:37 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I can’t understand it either. They must not have been True Atheists TM?
Does the "no true Scotsmen " principle apply to atheists?
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13-12-2015, 11:51 AM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 11:37 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I can’t understand it either. They must not have been True Atheists TM?
Does the "no true Scotsmen " principle apply to atheists?

It certainly can except for the ones who claim they were atheists because they were mad at god so they turned against him. If they actually thought there was an entity to be angry with then they weren't True Atheists™.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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13-12-2015, 12:13 PM
RE: Going Back To Faith.
(13-12-2015 11:37 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  
(13-12-2015 08:55 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I can’t understand it either. They must not have been True Atheists TM?
Does the "no true Scotsmen " principle apply to atheists?

That was a tongue in cheek observation I made.

I suppose you can apply the No True Scotsman principle to any situation.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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