Going Through Liberal vs Conservative (USA definitions)
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13-07-2017, 03:05 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 01:10 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  And on top of that, regulations help ensure that resources aren't consumed at a non-renewable/unsustainable rate. It does no one and no business any good if they destroy the ecosystem and/or community that they rely on.

In her book This Changes Everything: Capitalism Versus the Climate, Naomi Klein argued that this is exactly why fossil fuel industries will have to be regulated or nationalized. Since private interests have so much of their capital sunk in resources which are not yet exploited, they must necessarily exploit those resources or lose money. However, if they do exploit all their existing resources, if we buy and burn all the fossil fuels we know are there, we can't control climate change.

That will be perhaps the biggest political challenge to bring climate change under control in years to come. We will no longer be able to afford unrestricted capitalism.
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13-07-2017, 05:52 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 12:38 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  What motivates gov is staying in power ...

Give that man a cigar. Thumbsup

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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13-07-2017, 06:09 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
Free Market Capitalism hasn't really existed for some time in the "civilized" world, so it is rather difficult to praise or abuse it based on what is currently, or even recently, occurring.

The concept, however, has done more to raise the standard of living throughout the world than any thing else. That coupled with the idea of private property, that is ownership, and "democratic" governing has probably been partly responsible for the decline of religions, as well...but that is just a guess on my part when a lot of factors are taken into consideration.

If a seed or tractor fails to live up to its promise, it doesn't survive. That is Free Market Capitalism. Tesla cars are subsidized by our tax money at 50%. Where Tesla is not subsidized, they fail. That is Free Market Capitalism.

As for taxes, we as a small business (crop farming and poultry) fall into the 34% bracket. Is that our fair share for working like slaves and plowing most of what we make back into the business of feeding people? The cost of farming is getting to be so high and the return so low that I believe farmers may start considering that it costs too much to continue farming. We lost a farm that we share-cropped for over 30 years and my husband said to me today that we probably saved $50,000 by not having to tend it. Year after year many farmers make just enough to farm again...because that is what they are, farmers.

What would we do if our taxes weren't so high? We would buy more stuff for our business and spend more money on living and that is good for the economy.

"The Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient."
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13-07-2017, 07:45 PM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2017 07:35 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 01:09 PM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in Texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street.
For all the people to see

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles we’ll sing a victory tune
We’ll all meet back at the local saloon

Nice simple-minded childish mindless school-yard nonsense.
Hanging someone does not "find justice", or "bring into being a state of justice". Nothing is "found".
It *sounds* all nice and simple-minded. In fact, nothing is accomplished in your "frontier justice" except, temporarily, a fleeting vengeance satisfied.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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13-07-2017, 07:52 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
What else would you expect from the likes of him?

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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13-07-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 06:09 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  Free Market Capitalism hasn't really existed for some time in the "civilized" world, so it is rather difficult to praise or abuse it based on what is currently, or even recently, occurring.

The concept, however, has done more to raise the standard of living throughout the world than any thing else.

However, capitalism becomes a problem when combined with short-sightedness and over-population. Then it eats the floor out from beneath our feet.

It won't be easy to stop climate change exactly because it is created by our successes. But we have to realize we made the mistake of considering natural resources as income rather than capital (per E. F. Schumacher).
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14-07-2017, 01:47 AM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 05:52 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(13-07-2017 12:38 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  What motivates gov is staying in power ...

Give that man a cigar. Thumbsup

It's not some big secret, though people living in countries with shitty gov's may have easier time seeing it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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14-07-2017, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2017 01:09 PM by Cheerful Charlie.)
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative
(13-07-2017 11:44 AM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  So, I decided to search up the general idea of what both sides have. This thread if me going through both sides and writing my response and thoughts. As it goes through each stance the two have and gives a small summary of what to expect. Just going to do a few, about five or six.

Issue: Religion
Liberal:
Quote:Support the separation of church and state. Religious expression has no place in government. Support the removal of all references to God in public and government spaces. Religion should not interfere with
government.
Conservative:
Quote:The phrase "separation of church and state" is not in the Constitution. The First Amendment to the Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." This prevents the government from establishing a national church. However, it does not prevent God from being acknowledged in schools and
government buildings. Oppose the removal of symbols of Christian heritage from public and government spaces. Government should not interfere with religion
and religious freedom.

Conservatives usually hold to the idea of "original intent" as far as interpreting the Constitution. Thomas Jefferson is one of the founders who insisted on a Bill of Rights, including the first amendment, on religion.

What matters then is the intention of the founders. Jefferson's "Letter To The Danbury Baptists" uses the term "Wall of Separation". So it does not matter that phrase is not in the Constitution, this letter explains what the First amendment meant. Jefferson also refused to pronounce a national day of prayer, either officially or unofficially, because he said the Constitution prohibited the president in involving himself in religion to that extent. For that, the letters to the Rev. Mr. Millar are authoritative.

And the supreme court has accepted these Jefferson letters as authoritative as establishing original intent and how the first amendment is to be interpreted. American atheists who are not familiar with these letters of Jefferson's should google for them. Plus Jefferson's pithy quotes as to his opinion of Christianity.

Yog Sothoth! Yog Sothoth! Come back old ones! Yog Sothoth!

Cheerful Charlie
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14-07-2017, 10:15 PM
RE: Going Through Liberal vs Conservative (USA definitions)
(13-07-2017 06:09 PM)Jeanne Wrote:  If a seed or tractor fails to live up to its promise, it doesn't survive. That is Free Market Capitalism.

If a seed gets trampled upon by the bigger corporation, or your tractor gets run over by the bigger automated tractor running on your bought out neighbor's land, but they can afford the insurance for that kind of stuff, they can and will because, That is Free Market Capitalism.

Not that the seed or tractor isn't good or capable, it's just in the way of Free Market Capitalism. But that's good for everybody, right?

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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