Going Vegan.
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12-12-2014, 03:40 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 12:39 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Maybe you should look for small local farms which can guarantee animal welfare standards?
I think more people should do this, even if they don't care about animal welfare, because meat tastes a hell of a lot better when it's not full of stress hormones and undeveloped muscle.

One of the reasons I decided to switch to subsistence living was because of animal welfare, although I also have a problem with causing unneeded damage to plants. Probably why the spider plants have taken over my house; can't bring myself to put any of the baby ones on the compost heap :U

Ethical treatment is certainly something I care about -- and I do buy locally. However, ideally, I would like it if what I eat didn't have to be slaughtered fauna.

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12-12-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 03:40 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 12:39 PM)Cetaceaphile Wrote:  Maybe you should look for small local farms which can guarantee animal welfare standards?
I think more people should do this, even if they don't care about animal welfare, because meat tastes a hell of a lot better when it's not full of stress hormones and undeveloped muscle.

One of the reasons I decided to switch to subsistence living was because of animal welfare, although I also have a problem with causing unneeded damage to plants. Probably why the spider plants have taken over my house; can't bring myself to put any of the baby ones on the compost heap :U

Ethical treatment is certainly something I care about -- and I do buy locally. However, ideally, I would like it if what I eat didn't have to be slaughtered fauna.

Well if it is humanly done it is alright, besides, we will end up having to kill them either way.

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12-12-2014, 04:27 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 03:49 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well if it is humanly done it is alright, besides, we will end up having to kill them either way.

Why would we end up having to kill them? If we use them for purposes other than meat, and we don't have to slaughter them for their skins, why can't they die a natural death?

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12-12-2014, 06:06 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 04:27 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 03:49 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well if it is humanly done it is alright, besides, we will end up having to kill them either way.

Why would we end up having to kill them? If we use them for purposes other than meat, and we don't have to slaughter them for their skins, why can't they die a natural death?

A sharp crack on the back of the head is a better way to go than to spend 6 months slowly dying after years of going downhill some people find. Works better for humans too because animals that die from natural causes aren't usually very good to eat, especially if they are full of stress hormones from the terror of a slow death. Even animals we don't use parts of, like dogs and cats, we still prefer to kill them off rather than let them die 'naturally', on average though too. That whole mercy thing or whatever.

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12-12-2014, 06:55 PM (This post was last modified: 12-12-2014 07:00 PM by earmuffs.)
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 04:27 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 03:49 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well if it is humanly done it is alright, besides, we will end up having to kill them either way.

Why would we end up having to kill them? If we use them for purposes other than meat, and we don't have to slaughter them for their skins, why can't they die a natural death?

Because to continue producing milk (and all dairy products) farmers must impregnate (either through the use of a bull or artificial insemination) cows once a year so the cow continues to produce the milk.

Each farm has around 400 cows (here anyway), that's around 400 calves a year per farm (taking into account some die during child birth and some cows have twins).
If those calves are kept and not shipped off to be turned into mince than there is going to be a fuck load of cows.

Farms can only handle a certain number of cows. You need plenty of space because you need to grow the grass in paddocks that the cows aren't in and keep rotating them around to different paddocks to allow the grass to grow.
If you have too many cows than you wont be able to adequately grow the grass and your milk production will suffer.

You could ship those spare 400 cows off (remember, 400 cows is just 1 farm) overseas but the treatment of livestock on those large livestock carrying ships is pretty piss poor and once they're overseas they're in the hands of whoever you sold them too who will likely kill them for meat anyway.



Regarding leather. Dieing of natural causes is hardly a business model for a farm.
Funeral and life insurance maybe but farm? no. It's also very poor incentive to take good care of your cows if your profit comes from them dropping dead...


The only way to stop farmed animals being killed is if we stop eating meat, dairy and stop using leather and all the shit they make with dead pigs.
It's straight up never going to happen. You don't know that farming culture and life. You don't see the care farmers put into raising and taking care of their animals. It's a very natural thing, the cycle of birth, life and death. Every living thing must go through it, you can't stop things from dieing. It's a far more humane system than you give it credit for. Far more humane than say a pack of wolves taking down a deer.

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13-12-2014, 07:41 AM (This post was last modified: 13-12-2014 08:03 AM by Metazoa Zeke.)
RE: Going Vegan.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, double post sorry.

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13-12-2014, 07:46 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
(12-12-2014 04:27 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 03:49 PM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Well if it is humanly done it is alright, besides, we will end up having to kill them either way.

Why would we end up having to kill them? If we use them for purposes other than meat, and we don't have to slaughter them for their skins, why can't they die a natural death?

Keep in mind that livestock pretty much out populate humans. If we let them free if we stop eating them, then they will kill off other animals. If we slaughter most of them, it would be redundant as killing them just for leather would not workout well because what do we do with the rest of the body? Keep in mind that live stock that many vegans don't want us to kill have been artificial selected to be killed by us in order for their populations to survive.

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09-01-2015, 02:10 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(11-12-2014 05:55 PM)RuthD Wrote:  I was ovolactovegetarian for over 10 years and suffered no consequences.

I've been an ovo-vegetarian for many years. I do it because I have to, not because I want to. I would love to eat cheeseburgers, meatball subs, chicken wings, ribs, etc,. again! Sadcryface2

I'm 70, with Heart Failure, Permanent Atrial Fibrillation, Insulin Resistance and very sensitive allergic and non-allergic Asthma, for over 30 years.

During the past 10 years my health and my heart have gotten significantly better mostly due to my six small meal, frequent eating, low calorie, low glycemic, 1100 calorie ovo-vegetarian diet.

Whereas, 10 years ago I suffered major symptoms, like breathing problems, if I did the slightest amount of physical work, today I do 120 full pushups, lift weights, power walk daily; and do not feel physically limited at all (except for the problems of being OLD!)

One's diet can be a powerful "medicine", but it can also be very bad for one's health.

Is there free will in Heaven? Do "souls" age in Heaven? What if you get to Heaven, for an eternity, and find it boring and tedious and torturous, especially without booze or sex? And... what if you can't get along with God?
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04-02-2015, 06:16 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(09-01-2015 02:10 PM)Machaon Wrote:  
(11-12-2014 05:55 PM)RuthD Wrote:  I was ovolactovegetarian for over 10 years and suffered no consequences.

I've been an ovo-vegetarian for many years. I do it because I have to, not because I want to. I would love to eat cheeseburgers, meatball subs, chicken wings, ribs, etc,. again! Sadcryface2

I'm 70, with Heart Failure, Permanent Atrial Fibrillation, Insulin Resistance and very sensitive allergic and non-allergic Asthma, for over 30 years.

During the past 10 years my health and my heart have gotten significantly better mostly due to my six small meal, frequent eating, low calorie, low glycemic, 1100 calorie ovo-vegetarian diet.

Whereas, 10 years ago I suffered major symptoms, like breathing problems, if I did the slightest amount of physical work, today I do 120 full pushups, lift weights, power walk daily; and do not feel physically limited at all (except for the problems of being OLD!)

One's diet can be a powerful "medicine", but it can also be very bad for one's health.

Congrats on your vego stance.
Like you, at 73 I still pump iron and do some cardio, while round 90% ova lacto.
Looking out for nutritional foods is also important; also checking the labels.
I have also learned, re limited meat, to opt for the free range stuff.
Octogenarianism isn't all that badWink
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