Going Vegan.
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06-01-2014, 08:41 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
I have a friend who has been vegan, and fat-free and low salt, for over a year. The decision was made after a series of heart problems (the last episode, quite worrying) and the new diet seems to be keeping their heart in pretty good working order. Arteries clearing up nicely, as of most recent check; excess weight lost; energy returning.

It isn't easy to balance one's diet with so many foods off limits, but it can be done. These days, with good non-animal products and supplements, it's not as hard as it used to be, but being surrounded by westerners does present some difficulties. Going out to restaurants and other people's homes, my friend is usually restricted to naked salad, side dish vegetables and bread, but at home they're experimenting with new foods all the time. Apparently, there are lots of vegan websites that offer recipes and alternatives.

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07-01-2014, 12:43 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
(06-01-2014 08:41 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  I have a friend who has been vegan, and fat-free and low salt, for over a year. The decision was made after a series of heart problems (the last episode, quite worrying) and the new diet seems to be keeping their heart in pretty good working order. Arteries clearing up nicely, as of most recent check; excess weight lost; energy returning.

It isn't easy to balance one's diet with so many foods off limits, but it can be done. These days, with good non-animal products and supplements, it's not as hard as it used to be, but being surrounded by westerners does present some difficulties. Going out to restaurants and other people's homes, my friend is usually restricted to naked salad, side dish vegetables and bread, but at home they're experimenting with new foods all the time. Apparently, there are lots of vegan websites that offer recipes and alternatives.

Thanks Peterkin. One of my major issues is the treatment of animals. Even here, things aren't all that clear cut either. A major reduction in meats, fish and dairy too, could be the way to go.
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07-01-2014, 01:25 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
I wouldn't recommend going low sodium unless you know you're eating too much.

I went low sodium when I was bodybuilding around 225lbs. My normally lowish (105/75) bp was reading a high (155/100) for a few weeks. Turns out my arms were too big for the cuff I was using. I didn't figure that out until I started passing out when standing up from sitting or laying down. Ended up smashing my face into my bedroom door frame one night when I got up to piss. Went to doctor, he had to switch to a larger cuff, pressure read low.

Also, low sodium diets are turrible. Doesn't matter what herbs or pepper you put in the food. It just sucks.

Mmm nom nom sodium.
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07-01-2014, 03:37 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
I would hate to be taking supplements all the time, personally. I'd rather eat meat than pop pills.

For some anecdotal evidence, I had a friend in high school who decided she wanted to go all out vegan. She went a couple months and then started having some health problems, the details of which I can't remember at the moment, so she went to the doctor and he basically told her she needed to have a turkey sandwich every now and then, or she'd develop a more serious condition.

Now, I'm not totally against being vegan, I know it's not for me, but you have got to be really careful with what you are eating so you get all the appropriate nutrients. people did not evolve to be vegans, so all I'm saying is it's work and please take care of yourself. Even if that means having some eggs occasionally.
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07-01-2014, 04:47 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2014 04:53 AM by Dom.)
RE: Going Vegan.
My only beef with meat is the humane aspect. Hence I buy local, from farmers, through their local butcher who comes to the farm to do a fast slaughter there (shot to the head). The animals live on pastures, most of these type farmers only have like a couple of cows or pigs for slaughter each year. Chickens are free range - real and actual free range.

This means that I have to buy ahead and freeze, but it also means that I know that no harm came to the animals, they lived good lives, were not exposed to any chemicals and damn, it tastes soooooo much better.

Other than the humane aspect, which matters a lot to me, my decision is influenced by - evolution.

Every region of the world eats somewhat different things and the local populations have eaten this way for a very long time. You will see colder areas consuming more meat and fat, tropical places more fruit, and so on. But they are all omnivores. All regions, however, will have periods of time that are quite heavy in the consumption of one thing or the other, mostly these periods are seasonal and depend on availability.

So, we evolved as omnivores and humans the world over have found ways to source food that allow them to remain omnivores. Each region has enough variety of food to cover all the basic needs as far as nutrition goes. Regions that were populated without this are doing poorly and have skinny people with short life spans, and regions that have an excess of food have fat people with short life spans.

Our bodies have evolved to eat everything, and they know how to mine nutrients from everything. They have evolved to change diets seasonally, with more fresh fruit and veggie in the warm months and more grain, fat and meat in the cold months. We have not evolved to eat the same stuff all the time, whatever it may be.

So I believe in variety. I think we are made to eat everything, and while we do well eating only certain food groups periodically, in the course of a year we do best having covered it all.

Our bodies have evolved for a very long time to subsist on what the earth has to offer. They are fine tuned to utilize everything. Logically, they will do best if given what they have evolved to thrive on.

Theoretically we can substitute nutrients in one form with another form. However, during the experience with my husband's illness I came to learn that we have not identified even half the nutrients we need. There is a whole lot more to natural food than we have been able to discern. So, personally, I don't like to play guessing games with nutrition.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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07-01-2014, 08:54 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
(07-01-2014 04:47 AM)Dom Wrote:  My only beef with meat is the humane aspect. Hence I buy local, from farmers, through their local butcher who comes to the farm to do a fast slaughter there (shot to the head). The animals live on pastures, most of these type farmers only have like a couple of cows or pigs for slaughter each year. Chickens are free range - real and actual free range.

This means that I have to buy ahead and freeze, but it also means that I know that no harm came to the animals, they lived good lives, were not exposed to any chemicals and damn, it tastes soooooo much better.

Other than the humane aspect, which matters a lot to me, my decision is influenced by - evolution.

Every region of the world eats somewhat different things and the local populations have eaten this way for a very long time. You will see colder areas consuming more meat and fat, tropical places more fruit, and so on. But they are all omnivores. All regions, however, will have periods of time that are quite heavy in the consumption of one thing or the other, mostly these periods are seasonal and depend on availability.

So, we evolved as omnivores and humans the world over have found ways to source food that allow them to remain omnivores. Each region has enough variety of food to cover all the basic needs as far as nutrition goes. Regions that were populated without this are doing poorly and have skinny people with short life spans, and regions that have an excess of food have fat people with short life spans.

Our bodies have evolved to eat everything, and they know how to mine nutrients from everything. They have evolved to change diets seasonally, with more fresh fruit and veggie in the warm months and more grain, fat and meat in the cold months. We have not evolved to eat the same stuff all the time, whatever it may be.

So I believe in variety. I think we are made to eat everything, and while we do well eating only certain food groups periodically, in the course of a year we do best having covered it all.

Our bodies have evolved for a very long time to subsist on what the earth has to offer. They are fine tuned to utilize everything. Logically, they will do best if given what they have evolved to thrive on.

Theoretically we can substitute nutrients in one form with another form. However, during the experience with my husband's illness I came to learn that we have not identified even half the nutrients we need. There is a whole lot more to natural food than we have been able to discern. So, personally, I don't like to play guessing games with nutrition.

Couldn't have said it better. Terser, maybe, but not better.Smile

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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07-01-2014, 08:59 AM
RE: Going Vegan.
(06-01-2014 05:27 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  After returning to a light meat diet after several years an ovo/lacto vegetarian (in the main) I am now contemplating a go at veganism. I plan to move slowly from the
former, recommenced OLD, slowly eliminating dairy and eggs.
My limited, research to this point, indicates the vegan dietary approach is not inherently dangerous, except for a few areas, and has a lot of benefits, both ethical and from a nutritional aspect. Butterdiet.com warned of many dangers, but they would, wouldn't they!
I find it hard to be really happy about factory farming and the intense suffering of animals, including dairy cattle, and chicken/eggs, other than free range, which is comparatively rare.
As for the health benefits of meat, I see this as very exaggerated. Mad cow disease is not that distant, along with the issues of chemical measures for greater yield that may well impact on meat and fish consumers.
Anyhow I ill give it a go, and in the worst case scenario return to the ova/lacto model.

Any vegans out there?Chase

Here I thought you were a little more respectable than being a vegan, Woof.

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07-01-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(07-01-2014 08:59 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(06-01-2014 05:27 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  After returning to a light meat diet after several years an ovo/lacto vegetarian (in the main) I am now contemplating a go at veganism. I plan to move slowly from the
former, recommenced OLD, slowly eliminating dairy and eggs.
My limited, research to this point, indicates the vegan dietary approach is not inherently dangerous, except for a few areas, and has a lot of benefits, both ethical and from a nutritional aspect. Butterdiet.com warned of many dangers, but they would, wouldn't they!
I find it hard to be really happy about factory farming and the intense suffering of animals, including dairy cattle, and chicken/eggs, other than free range, which is comparatively rare.
As for the health benefits of meat, I see this as very exaggerated. Mad cow disease is not that distant, along with the issues of chemical measures for greater yield that may well impact on meat and fish consumers.
Anyhow I ill give it a go, and in the worst case scenario return to the ova/lacto model.

Any vegans out there?Chase

Here I thought you were a little more respectable than being a vegan, Woof.

I don't know why vegans should warrant disrespect. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Perhaps my tentative road to veganism will begin with an over all reduction of dairy produce. Formerly, when OLV ,I made little reduction in this area.If we all reduced extreme meat/dairy consumption even slightly, animal suffering would eventually decline and human health would improve. Extreme approaches tend to burn themselves out.
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07-01-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
(07-01-2014 05:16 PM)Mr Woof Wrote:  
(07-01-2014 08:59 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  Here I thought you were a little more respectable than being a vegan, Woof.

I don't know why vegans should warrant disrespect. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Perhaps my tentative road to veganism will begin with an over all reduction of dairy produce. Formerly, when OLV ,I made little reduction in this area.If we all reduced extreme meat/dairy consumption even slightly, animal suffering would eventually decline and human health would improve. Extreme approaches tend to burn themselves out.

It's just a joke, Woofs.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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08-01-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Going Vegan.
Good luck with that! I'm vegetarian and have "gone vegan" a few times, never lasting more than a few months (because Milk Chocolate).

Good luck with that. Tofu scrambles, nutritional yeast, and cheezly are your friends! Big Grin
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