Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
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05-07-2014, 07:01 AM (This post was last modified: 06-07-2014 04:27 AM by Youkay.)
Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
As I am compiling a list of verses that might help me deconvert friends and family, I thought I might share them, so people who have the same interest might benefit.


Section 1: God and the infidels: Why (not) to believe in God

Quote:64:10: But the ones who disbelieved and denied Our verses - those are the companions of the Fire, abiding eternally therein; and wretched is the destination.

People who do not believe in God or the Quran go to hell. Also, see 3:10, 3:12, 3:16, 3:21, 3:25, 3:56, 3:91, 3:106, 3:116, 3:131, 3:151, 3:177, 3:192, 3:197, 4:56, 4:169 etc.

Quote:4:56: Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

This verse stands out as exceptionally cruel and graphic

Quote:2:7 ff: Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

According to this, God has created a certain population of man to disbelieve. On top of that, he has even sealed their senses and their minds to perceive God. And these are the ones going to burn in hell, only because God created them the way they are.

Quote:And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.

So, God even enhances the doubt of the doubtful, so it would be incredibly difficult for them to return to faith, thereby condemning them to hell.

Quote:2:98: Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.

As in 2:7 ff God has created disbelievers the way they are, withholding from them the ability to believe. In this verse he declares that he is an enemy to those people.

Quote:2:161 ff: Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.


See 2:7, which states that God has created people to disbelieve and made it impossible for them to shed their disbelief. Now, these people are cursed eternally by God. So how is this a merciful and just God?

Quote:2:255: Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. […]

As mentioned in 2:208 and other verses, Satan clearly intercedes with God. But in this verse it states that nothing can intercede with God except by his permission. Ergo, God actively wants Satan to lead people astray, which puts Gods mercy and justice into question.

Quote:4:118 ff: Whom Allah has cursed. For he had said, "I will surely take from among Your servants a specific portion. And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them [sinful] desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah ." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss. Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion. The refuge of those will be Hell, and they will not find from it an escape.

According to 2:208, God clearly permits Satan to play his little game and has even created an eternal Hell for those that Satan successfully diverted. Again, how is this just and merciful?



Quote:2:47 and 2:122: O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.

God favors a race/nation over others.

Quote:3:110: You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. [...]

God favors a race/nation over others. And why didn't he just create all nations the same way?



Quote:2:118 ff: Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire.

God, the perfect being, thinks that sending one man at a specific time to a specific place should be sufficient to convince all human beings, no matter where on the world they live/lived or how long after.

Quote:2:147: The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.

Don't doubt, don't think critically.

Quote:2:164: Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.

“To reason God's existence, one need not look further than the cycle between day and night, rain and ships.” This perfectly reflects the narrow minded world view of people living in a very basic understanding of the world and natural phenomena. Is this the best “reason” God can offer in the Qur’an?

Quote:2:208 ff: O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.

Which clear proofs is the Qur’an referring to here? (see next verse)

Quote:2:211: Ask the Children of Israel how many a sign of evidence We have given them. And whoever exchanges the favor of Allah [for disbelief] after it has come to him - then indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.

That kind of “proof” is ridiculously lame. Is this the best “proof” God can offer in the Qur’an?

Quote:3:190: Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day are signs for those of understanding.

Those of understanding know that alternation of night and day and the existence of heavens and earth are NOT signs for the existence of God.

Quote:2:258: Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.

Is this the best “argument” God can offer in the Qur’an? Also, the king is very easily overwhelmed.

Quote:3:98: Say, "O People of the Scripture, why do you disbelieve in the verses of Allah while Allah is Witness over what you do?"

3:101: And how could you disbelieve while to you are being recited the verses of Allah and among you is His Messenger? And whoever holds firmly to Allah has [indeed] been guided to a straight path.

Very poor arguments, indeed.

Quote:3:102: O you who have believed, fear Allah as He should be feared and do not die except as Muslims [in submission to Him].

Appeal to fear.

Quote:2:259: Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."

Don't doubt...

Quote:2:260: And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give life to the dead." [ Allah ] said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but [I ask] only that my heart may be satisfied." [ Allah ] said, "Take four birds and commit them to yourself. Then [after slaughtering them] put on each hill a portion of them; then call them - they will come [flying] to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."

Don't doubt...

Quote:3:27: You cause the night to enter the day, and You cause the day to enter the night; and You bring the living out of the dead, and You bring the dead out of the living. And You give provision to whom You will without account."

Don't doubt...
__________________________________________________________________



Section 2: Islam and Women

Quote:4:11: Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

Men inherit twice as much as women.

Quote:4:34: Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Men have clear authority over women

Quote:4:15,16: Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.

And the two who commit it among you, dishonor them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

Unlawful sexual intercourse is punishable by death? But only the women are to be punished?

Quote:4:20: But if you want to replace one wife with another and you have given one of them a great amount [in gifts], do not take [back] from it anything. Would you take it in injustice and manifest sin?

So it is OK to just divorce from one wife and take another

Quote:4:25: And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. And Allah is most knowing about your faith. You [believers] are of one another. So marry them with the permission of their people and give them their due compensation according to what is acceptable. [They should be] chaste, neither [of] those who commit unlawful intercourse randomly nor those who take [secret] lovers. But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women. This [allowance] is for him among you who fears sin, but to be patient is better for you. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Here the mention is of slaves, which is in contradiction with 2:177, which states to free slaves.
__________________________________________________________________



Section 3: Islam and Scientific Accuracy

Quote:3:59: Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

Quote:4:1: O mankind, fear your Lord, who created you from one soul and created from it its mate and dispersed from both of them many men and women.

This clearly refers to Adam and Eve and can't possibly be brought in agreement with the theory of evolution.
__________________________________________________________________



Section 4: Jihad

Quote:3:157: And if you are killed in the cause of Allah or die - then forgiveness from Allah and mercy are better than whatever they accumulate [in this world].

Quote:3:169 ff: And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,

Rejoicing in what Allah has bestowed upon them of His bounty, and they receive good tidings about those [to be martyred] after them who have not yet joined them - that there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve.

They receive good tidings of favor from Allah and bounty and [of the fact] that Allah does not allow the reward of believers to be lost -

Those [believers] who responded to Allah and the Messenger after injury had struck them. For those who did good among them and feared Allah is a great reward

Quote:4:76: Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah , and those who disbelieve fight in the cause of Taghut. So fight against the allies of Satan. Indeed, the plot of Satan has ever been weak.

Call to fight and martyrdom.

Quote:4:66 ff: And if We had decreed upon them, "Kill yourselves" or "Leave your homes," they would not have done it, except for a few of them. But if they had done what they were instructed, it would have been better for them and a firmer position [for them in faith].

And then We would have given them from Us a great reward.

And We would have guided them to a straight path.

And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger - those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous. And excellent are those as companions.

Quote:4:74: So let those fight in the cause of Allah who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. And he who fights in the cause of Allah and is killed or achieves victory - We will bestow upon him a great reward.

Reference to the martyr's rewards
__________________________________________________________________



Section 5: Misconceptions and Prejudice
__________________________________________________________________



Section 6: Other Verses

Quote:3:15: Say, "Shall I inform you of [something] better than that? For those who fear Allah will be gardens in the presence of their Lord beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and purified spouses and approval from Allah . And Allah is Seeing of [His] servants -

Mention of virgins in heaven. Also, in 4:57.

Quote:3:106 ff:On the Day [some] faces will turn white and [some] faces will turn black. As for those whose faces turn black, [to them it will be said], "Did you disbelieve after your belief? Then taste the punishment for what you used to reject."

But as for those whose faces will turn white, [they will be] within the mercy of Allah . They will abide therein eternally.

This very peculiar verse about how people are going to be sorted in the afterlife is very popular.
__________________________________________________________________5




I will add more as I go through. I will also upload compilations on how women are seen and treated and on Jihad.

Cheers

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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05-07-2014, 07:04 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
All good stuff - a word of warning - a counterpoint I have seen given by Islamic apologists is that the Qu'ran loses some of its' finer meanings if taken out of the original Arabic. The answer to that pathetic excuse of course is to then point out that Allah is not interested in disseminating his message to the entire world and thus it is his own fault.
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05-07-2014, 07:07 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 07:01 AM)Youkay Wrote:  As I am compiling a list of verses that might help me deconvert friends and family, I thought I might share them, so people who have the same interest might benefit.

64:10:

But the ones who disbelieved and denied Our verses - those are the companions of the Fire, abiding eternally therein; and wretched is the destination.


People who do not believe in God or the Quran go to hell.

2:7 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

According to this, God has created a certain population of men to disbelieve. On top of that, he has even sealed their senses and their minds to perceive God. And these are the ones going to burn in hell, only because they were the way God created them and were not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.


So, God even enhances the doubt of the doubtful, so it would be incredibly difficult for them to return to faith, thereby condemning them to hell.

2:47 and 2:122:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.


God favors a race/nation over others.

2:98:

Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.


As in 2:7 ff God has created disbelievers the way they are, withholding from them the ability to believe. In his verse he declares that he is an enemy to those people, only because they are the way God created them and are not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

2:118 ff:

Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire.


God, the perfect being, thinks that sending one man at a specific time to a specific place should be sufficient to convince all human beings, no matter where on the world they live/lived or how long after.

2:147:

The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.


Don't doubt, don't think critically.

2:156 ff:

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return."


Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

The quran preaches passivity in the face of disaster (which can be interpreted in many ways) or undesirable events.

2:161 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved
.

See 2:7, which states that God has created people to disbelieve and made it impossible for them to shed their disbelief. Now, these people are cursed eternally by God. So how is this a merciful and just God?

2:164:

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.


“To reason God's existence, one need not look further than the cycle between day and night, rain and ships.” This perfectly reflects the narrow minded world view of people living in a very basic understanding of the world and natural phenomena. Is this the best “reason” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:208 ff:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.


Which clear proofs is the Qur’an referring to here? (see next verse)

2:211:

Ask the Children of Israel how many a sign of evidence We have given them. And whoever exchanges the favor of Allah [for disbelief] after it has come to him - then indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.


That kind of “proof” is ridiculously lame. Is this the best “proof” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:255:

Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. […]

As mentioned in 2:208 and other verses, Satan clearly intercedes with God. But in this verse it states that nothing can intercede with God except when by his permission. Ergo, God wants Satan to lead people astray, which puts Gods mercy and justice in question.

2:258:

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.


Is this the best “argument” God can offer in the Qur’an? Also, the king is very easily overwhelmed.

2:259:

Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."


Don't doubt...

2:260:

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give life to the dead." [ Allah ] said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but [I ask] only that my heart may be satisfied." [ Allah ] said, "Take four birds and commit them to yourself. Then [after slaughtering them] put on each hill a portion of them; then call them - they will come [flying] to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."


Don't doubt...


I will add more as I go through. I will also upload compilations on how women are seen and treated and on Jihad.

Cheers

What did you expect from the foolishness, ignorance and lack of insight of unwashed demons?
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05-07-2014, 07:08 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 07:07 AM)Rinpoche Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 07:01 AM)Youkay Wrote:  As I am compiling a list of verses that might help me deconvert friends and family, I thought I might share them, so people who have the same interest might benefit.

64:10:

But the ones who disbelieved and denied Our verses - those are the companions of the Fire, abiding eternally therein; and wretched is the destination.


People who do not believe in God or the Quran go to hell.

2:7 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

According to this, God has created a certain population of men to disbelieve. On top of that, he has even sealed their senses and their minds to perceive God. And these are the ones going to burn in hell, only because they were the way God created them and were not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.


So, God even enhances the doubt of the doubtful, so it would be incredibly difficult for them to return to faith, thereby condemning them to hell.

2:47 and 2:122:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.


God favors a race/nation over others.

2:98:

Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.


As in 2:7 ff God has created disbelievers the way they are, withholding from them the ability to believe. In his verse he declares that he is an enemy to those people, only because they are the way God created them and are not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

2:118 ff:

Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire.


God, the perfect being, thinks that sending one man at a specific time to a specific place should be sufficient to convince all human beings, no matter where on the world they live/lived or how long after.

2:147:

The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.


Don't doubt, don't think critically.

2:156 ff:

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return."


Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

The quran preaches passivity in the face of disaster (which can be interpreted in many ways) or undesirable events.

2:161 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved
.

See 2:7, which states that God has created people to disbelieve and made it impossible for them to shed their disbelief. Now, these people are cursed eternally by God. So how is this a merciful and just God?

2:164:

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.


“To reason God's existence, one need not look further than the cycle between day and night, rain and ships.” This perfectly reflects the narrow minded world view of people living in a very basic understanding of the world and natural phenomena. Is this the best “reason” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:208 ff:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.


Which clear proofs is the Qur’an referring to here? (see next verse)

2:211:

Ask the Children of Israel how many a sign of evidence We have given them. And whoever exchanges the favor of Allah [for disbelief] after it has come to him - then indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.


That kind of “proof” is ridiculously lame. Is this the best “proof” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:255:

Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. […]

As mentioned in 2:208 and other verses, Satan clearly intercedes with God. But in this verse it states that nothing can intercede with God except when by his permission. Ergo, God wants Satan to lead people astray, which puts Gods mercy and justice in question.

2:258:

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.


Is this the best “argument” God can offer in the Qur’an? Also, the king is very easily overwhelmed.

2:259:

Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."


Don't doubt...

2:260:

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give life to the dead." [ Allah ] said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but [I ask] only that my heart may be satisfied." [ Allah ] said, "Take four birds and commit them to yourself. Then [after slaughtering them] put on each hill a portion of them; then call them - they will come [flying] to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."


Don't doubt...


I will add more as I go through. I will also upload compilations on how women are seen and treated and on Jihad.

Cheers

What did you expect from the foolishness, ignorance and lack of insight of unwashed demons?
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05-07-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
Youkay, good work. Glad to see a rational ex-Muslim. Please be careful around your believing friends and family. You are too rare a commodity.

Are there any scientific fallacies or errors in the Quran you can point out?

Rinpoche, how do you know the demons were unwashed? Keep your nuttiness in your thread.

Doc
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05-07-2014, 11:12 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 07:07 AM)Rinpoche Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 07:01 AM)Youkay Wrote:  As I am compiling a list of verses that might help me deconvert friends and family, I thought I might share them, so people who have the same interest might benefit.

64:10:

But the ones who disbelieved and denied Our verses - those are the companions of the Fire, abiding eternally therein; and wretched is the destination.


People who do not believe in God or the Quran go to hell.

2:7 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

According to this, God has created a certain population of men to disbelieve. On top of that, he has even sealed their senses and their minds to perceive God. And these are the ones going to burn in hell, only because they were the way God created them and were not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.


So, God even enhances the doubt of the doubtful, so it would be incredibly difficult for them to return to faith, thereby condemning them to hell.

2:47 and 2:122:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.


God favors a race/nation over others.

2:98:

Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.


As in 2:7 ff God has created disbelievers the way they are, withholding from them the ability to believe. In his verse he declares that he is an enemy to those people, only because they are the way God created them and are not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

2:118 ff:

Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire.


God, the perfect being, thinks that sending one man at a specific time to a specific place should be sufficient to convince all human beings, no matter where on the world they live/lived or how long after.

2:147:

The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.


Don't doubt, don't think critically.

2:156 ff:

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return."


Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

The quran preaches passivity in the face of disaster (which can be interpreted in many ways) or undesirable events.

2:161 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved
.

See 2:7, which states that God has created people to disbelieve and made it impossible for them to shed their disbelief. Now, these people are cursed eternally by God. So how is this a merciful and just God?

2:164:

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.


“To reason God's existence, one need not look further than the cycle between day and night, rain and ships.” This perfectly reflects the narrow minded world view of people living in a very basic understanding of the world and natural phenomena. Is this the best “reason” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:208 ff:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.


Which clear proofs is the Qur’an referring to here? (see next verse)

2:211:

Ask the Children of Israel how many a sign of evidence We have given them. And whoever exchanges the favor of Allah [for disbelief] after it has come to him - then indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.


That kind of “proof” is ridiculously lame. Is this the best “proof” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:255:

Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. […]

As mentioned in 2:208 and other verses, Satan clearly intercedes with God. But in this verse it states that nothing can intercede with God except when by his permission. Ergo, God wants Satan to lead people astray, which puts Gods mercy and justice in question.

2:258:

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.


Is this the best “argument” God can offer in the Qur’an? Also, the king is very easily overwhelmed.

2:259:

Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."


Don't doubt...

2:260:

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give life to the dead." [ Allah ] said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but [I ask] only that my heart may be satisfied." [ Allah ] said, "Take four birds and commit them to yourself. Then [after slaughtering them] put on each hill a portion of them; then call them - they will come [flying] to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."


Don't doubt...


I will add more as I go through. I will also upload compilations on how women are seen and treated and on Jihad.

Cheers

What did you expect from the foolishness, ignorance and lack of insight of unwashed demons?

What the....

More Min Gee Ziss
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05-07-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 09:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  ...
Are there any scientific fallacies or errors in the Quran you can point out?
...

(05-07-2014 07:01 AM)Youkay Wrote:  ...
2:164:
...
[His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled Laughat between the heaven and the earth...

...

Huh

How else can this be explained?

[Image: oreilly%2Bmoon.jpg]

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05-07-2014, 11:53 AM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 07:07 AM)Rinpoche Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 07:01 AM)Youkay Wrote:  As I am compiling a list of verses that might help me deconvert friends and family, I thought I might share them, so people who have the same interest might benefit.

64:10:

But the ones who disbelieved and denied Our verses - those are the companions of the Fire, abiding eternally therein; and wretched is the destination.


People who do not believe in God or the Quran go to hell.

2:7 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.

According to this, God has created a certain population of men to disbelieve. On top of that, he has even sealed their senses and their minds to perceive God. And these are the ones going to burn in hell, only because they were the way God created them and were not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

And of the people are some who say, "We believe in Allah and the Last Day," but they are not believers.

They [think to] deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive [it] not.

In their hearts is disease, so Allah has increased their disease; and for them is a painful punishment because they [habitually] used to lie.


So, God even enhances the doubt of the doubtful, so it would be incredibly difficult for them to return to faith, thereby condemning them to hell.

2:47 and 2:122:

O Children of Israel, remember My favor that I have bestowed upon you and that I preferred you over the worlds.


God favors a race/nation over others.

2:98:

Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael - then indeed, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers.


As in 2:7 ff God has created disbelievers the way they are, withholding from them the ability to believe. In his verse he declares that he is an enemy to those people, only because they are the way God created them and are not able to overcome God the Allmighty's creation.

2:118 ff:

Those who do not know say, "Why does Allah not speak to us or there come to us a sign?" Thus spoke those before them like their words. Their hearts resemble each other. We have shown clearly the signs to a people who are certain [in faith].

Indeed, We have sent you, [O Muhammad], with the truth as a bringer of good tidings and a warner, and you will not be asked about the companions of Hellfire.


God, the perfect being, thinks that sending one man at a specific time to a specific place should be sufficient to convince all human beings, no matter where on the world they live/lived or how long after.

2:147:

The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.


Don't doubt, don't think critically.

2:156 ff:

Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return."


Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided.

The quran preaches passivity in the face of disaster (which can be interpreted in many ways) or undesirable events.

2:161 ff:

Indeed, those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers - upon them will be the curse of Allah and of the angels and the people, all together,

Abiding eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved
.

See 2:7, which states that God has created people to disbelieve and made it impossible for them to shed their disbelief. Now, these people are cursed eternally by God. So how is this a merciful and just God?

2:164:

Indeed, in the creation of the heavens and earth, and the alternation of the night and the day, and the [great] ships which sail through the sea with that which benefits people, and what Allah has sent down from the heavens of rain, giving life thereby to the earth after its lifelessness and dispersing therein every [kind of] moving creature, and [His] directing of the winds and the clouds controlled between the heaven and the earth are signs for a people who use reason.


“To reason God's existence, one need not look further than the cycle between day and night, rain and ships.” This perfectly reflects the narrow minded world view of people living in a very basic understanding of the world and natural phenomena. Is this the best “reason” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:208 ff:

O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

But if you deviate after clear proofs have come to you, then know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.


Which clear proofs is the Qur’an referring to here? (see next verse)

2:211:

Ask the Children of Israel how many a sign of evidence We have given them. And whoever exchanges the favor of Allah [for disbelief] after it has come to him - then indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.


That kind of “proof” is ridiculously lame. Is this the best “proof” God can offer in the Qur’an?

2:255:

Allah - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of [all] existence. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. […]

As mentioned in 2:208 and other verses, Satan clearly intercedes with God. But in this verse it states that nothing can intercede with God except when by his permission. Ergo, God wants Satan to lead people astray, which puts Gods mercy and justice in question.

2:258:

Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people.


Is this the best “argument” God can offer in the Qur’an? Also, the king is very easily overwhelmed.

2:259:

Or [consider such an example] as the one who passed by a township which had fallen into ruin. He said, "How will Allah bring this to life after its death?" So Allah caused him to die for a hundred years; then He revived him. He said, "How long have you remained?" The man said, "I have remained a day or part of a day." He said, "Rather, you have remained one hundred years. Look at your food and your drink; it has not changed with time. And look at your donkey; and We will make you a sign for the people. And look at the bones [of this donkey] - how We raise them and then We cover them with flesh." And when it became clear to him, he said, "I know that Allah is over all things competent."


Don't doubt...

2:260:

And [mention] when Abraham said, "My Lord, show me how You give life to the dead." [ Allah ] said, "Have you not believed?" He said, "Yes, but [I ask] only that my heart may be satisfied." [ Allah ] said, "Take four birds and commit them to yourself. Then [after slaughtering them] put on each hill a portion of them; then call them - they will come [flying] to you in haste. And know that Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise."


Don't doubt...


I will add more as I go through. I will also upload compilations on how women are seen and treated and on Jihad.

Cheers

What did you expect from the foolishness, ignorance and lack of insight of unwashed demons?

I expect absolutely nothing from demons, given the apparent lack of existence of said.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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05-07-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 09:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Youkay, good work. Glad to see a rational ex-Muslim. Please be careful around your believing friends and family. You are too rare a commodity.

Are there any scientific fallacies or errors in the Quran you can point out?

Rinpoche, how do you know the demons were unwashed? Keep your nuttiness in your thread.

Doc

71:15-16:
"Did you see how God created seven heavens one above an other and made the moon a light therein and made the sun a lamp?"
So God made only our solar system, he is clearly unaware of the other stars in the Universe.

78:12-13:
"We have built above you seven strong (heavens) and placed a blazing lamp."
Once again, 'A' blazing lamp.

37;6 'stars are guards against devils, so they wont eavesdrop '

37;10 'meteors are projectiles fired at devils.' No God, they are cosmic debris.

65;12 'It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.'
No God, there are more than 7 planets, you created them remember??

86;6-7 - 'He was created from a fluid, ejected, Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.'
Relating sperm, God was shy of using the word 'balls'.

51;59 'We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.'
This one is regarding creation of living things in pairs. God didn't want to do anything with asexually reproducing species.

37:139-147 'And, indeed, Jonah was also a messenger. And [He left his people, on his own accord] when he ran to the ship (fully) laden. Then he cast lots, and he was thrown [into the sea]. Then the big Fish swallowed him; while he was blamed. Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified God, He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection. But We cast him forth on the naked shore in a state of weakness. And We caused to grow, over him, a spreading plant of the Gourd kind. And We sent him [back] to a hundred thousand (men) or more. And they believed; so We permitted them to enjoy (their life) for a while.'
How can a man live inside a fish without being dissolved by stomach acid or dying of hypoxia is beyond my understanding.

21:31, "And we have set on earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake, "
As if it's a piece of paper that would blow away with the wind. But that makes sense because of the next verse.

20:52 '[It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants.'
So God's definition of Earth is like a carpet i.e Flat.

21:33 "It is he who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon: all (celestial bodies) swim along, each in it's rounded course"
Sun and moon apparently orbit the Earth.

22:65, that "He witholds the sky from falling on the earth except by his leave: for Allah is most kind and most merciful to man."

22:65, that "He witholds the sky from falling on the earth except by his leave: for Allah is most kind and most merciful to man."
So Earth is flat and sky is hard and it can physically fall on our heads and it is only by the grace of almight allah that it stays in its place otherwise we will all be crushed. Oh how merciful he is to keep a sky that is not even capable of falling in its place so it wouldn't crush the empty skulls of believers. Fucking retards.
It is a book of lies and fake mercy. You are all alive because I am merciful and I chose not to kill you otherwise I can make you all fall into the sky. Thats exactly what Allah sounds like!

All great truths begin as blasphemy - George Bernard Shaw
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05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
RE: Going through the Qu'ran
(05-07-2014 12:19 PM)Anna Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 09:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Youkay, good work. Glad to see a rational ex-Muslim. Please be careful around your believing friends and family. You are too rare a commodity.

Are there any scientific fallacies or errors in the Quran you can point out?

Rinpoche, how do you know the demons were unwashed? Keep your nuttiness in your thread.

Doc

71:15-16:
"Did you see how God created seven heavens one above an other and made the moon a light therein and made the sun a lamp?"
So God made only our solar system, he is clearly unaware of the other stars in the Universe.

78:12-13:
"We have built above you seven strong (heavens) and placed a blazing lamp."
Once again, 'A' blazing lamp.

37;6 'stars are guards against devils, so they wont eavesdrop '

37;10 'meteors are projectiles fired at devils.' No God, they are cosmic debris.

65;12 'It is Allah who has created seven heavens and of the earth, the like of them. [His] command descends among them so you may know that Allah is over all things competent and that Allah has encompassed all things in knowledge.'
No God, there are more than 7 planets, you created them remember??

86;6-7 - 'He was created from a fluid, ejected, Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.'
Relating sperm, God was shy of using the word 'balls'.

51;59 'We created two mates; perhaps you will remember.'
This one is regarding creation of living things in pairs. God didn't want to do anything with asexually reproducing species.

37:139-147 'And, indeed, Jonah was also a messenger. And [He left his people, on his own accord] when he ran to the ship (fully) laden. Then he cast lots, and he was thrown [into the sea]. Then the big Fish swallowed him; while he was blamed. Had it not been that he (repented and) glorified God, He would certainly have remained inside the Fish till the Day of Resurrection. But We cast him forth on the naked shore in a state of weakness. And We caused to grow, over him, a spreading plant of the Gourd kind. And We sent him [back] to a hundred thousand (men) or more. And they believed; so We permitted them to enjoy (their life) for a while.'
How can a man live inside a fish without being dissolved by stomach acid or dying of hypoxia is beyond my understanding.

21:31, "And we have set on earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake, "
As if it's a piece of paper that would blow away with the wind. But that makes sense because of the next verse.

20:52 '[It is He] who has made for you the earth as a bed [spread out] and inserted therein for you roadways and sent down from the sky, rain and produced thereby categories of various plants.'
So God's definition of Earth is like a carpet i.e Flat.

21:33 "It is he who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon: all (celestial bodies) swim along, each in it's rounded course"
Sun and moon apparently orbit the Earth.

22:65, that "He witholds the sky from falling on the earth except by his leave: for Allah is most kind and most merciful to man."

22:65, that "He witholds the sky from falling on the earth except by his leave: for Allah is most kind and most merciful to man."
So Earth is flat and sky is hard and it can physically fall on our heads and it is only by the grace of almight allah that it stays in its place otherwise we will all be crushed. Oh how merciful he is to keep a sky that is not even capable of falling in its place so it wouldn't crush the empty skulls of believers. Fucking retards.
It is a book of lies and fake mercy. You are all alive because I am merciful and I chose not to kill you otherwise I can make you all fall into the sky. Thats exactly what Allah sounds like!

Excellent points. Thanks for the info. I grew up in Kuwait. There was this weekly program on TV called the Quran and Science or Science and the Quran (I forget which) in which a Muslim scholar would present "scientific" proof from the Quran. Pap, I thought it back then. But only because I then believed the Bible to be true.

Doc
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