Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
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08-07-2014, 08:30 AM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
(08-07-2014 07:56 AM)Youkay Wrote:  As I go through the Qur'an I am astonished how repetitive it is and how much emphasis there is on non-essential things. Most of the times it threatens with hell and describes how non-believers don't believe...

Here is a fun verse to bridge the time before I went through it all and uploaded a entirely new thred:

Quote:6:101: [He is] Originator of the heavens and the earth. How could He have a son when He does not have a companion and He created all things? And He is, of all things, Knowing.
Why? Isn't he able to create a son by himself? Does he need a partner for this job?

Well... It's not like Allah is love.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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08-07-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
(08-07-2014 06:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-07-2014 01:17 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Pap, I thought it back then. But only because I then believed the Bible to be true.

Confused

Nowadays, I think it is pap, because I like the word "pap". Oh, and I don't believe in God.
Doc
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08-07-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
(08-07-2014 02:24 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
(08-07-2014 02:18 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  #1: There is a time limit on editing posts. This is to prevent malicious editing by someone looking to cause trouble.

#2 I do not believe that function is supported on this forum.

That's unfortunate... Sad I suppose I will expand on the list offline then and put it online once it is finished and polished.

Hopefully, it will become a "go-to" thread whenever in debate with a muslim. But the input from this forum would have been quite useful...

Have a word with Hughsie. He's good at links and stuff.

I, for one, would find it useful.

You could get a link set up via the resource library in the section headed "Discussions/debates from TTA".

There are a few Quranic bits and pieces in there already.

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08-07-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
(08-07-2014 11:08 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  
(08-07-2014 06:18 AM)morondog Wrote:  Confused

Nowadays, I think it is pap, because I like the word "pap". Oh, and I don't believe in God.
Doc

Over here pap is this white maize porridge and it tastes *awesome*. I want me some pap now...

Yeah I know... I just... this situation is soo common among lez religioz. They're like 99% there. They can see the flawed reasoning... but... ya know... logs... eyeballs... seems like no one ever reads that passage no morez...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-07-2014, 12:13 PM (This post was last modified: 10-07-2014 12:16 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
I am living in a Muslim country and I have discussed religion with three people, all educated with good jobs and all have asked me the same question: "Have you read the Koran?" I have a copy and have read a lot of it. They then admitted that they haven't read it.


This is interesting, I think. I have a feeling that most Muslims have not read the Koran and don't know what is in it. I think it may be the case that the Islamic world is in the position Christianity was a few hundred years ago when the NT was only in Latin and people started to translate it into their own languages. I don't know if this is the case and am interested in knowing if anyone has a view on that.

The point about the Koran is that when you read this book, expecting it to be something which is at least plausibly "wise" and "profound", you get, instead, something which is on the same level as the Book of Mormon. The Koran is complete and utter nonsense. It is unintelligible, repetitive, boring to the point of being mind numbing and stupid. I can't think of anything good to say about it.

I suspect that the reason Islam is what it is today, is that most Muslims don't actually have a clue what the religion is about. Unlike the NT which has some sort of central idea of a "logos", and then some good advice about how to live with a lot of stories explaining how to act, ie., parables, the Koran just spouts gibberish. There's a chapter called "Iron" and one called "The Ant". Here it is in all it's spectacular ridiculousness: http://quranexplorer.com/

I defy anyone to read this and not come away thinking "WTF, people actually buy into this meaningless garbage?".

It explains why I am finding Muslims not to be so in my face as Christians What can they say to me? They haven't read their own book, they wouldn't be able to understand it if they did and it is a supreme embarrassment. It is arranged in order of longest to shortest verses. Mohammed was supposed to have been illiterate but wrote this stuff on bits of camel hide etc or someone else took notes of what he said while in a trance and these fragments were supposedly gathered up and made into a book.

What have we got with Islam? A nonsense religion foisted on people who have no idea what it stands for. Peace? Maybe. Don't kill anyone...except if you should kill someone... The five pillars of Islam are that there is one god, Mohammed is his prophet, fast, pray five times a day to Mecca and go to Mecca at least once in your life.

I understand that the Mecca thing is to parade around in a circle around a big black box, inside of which is a meteorite. As I understand it this meteorite is from pre Islamic religion and it is believed to be the testicle of the phallic sky god which came to earth. It's a bit like the Hindu idea of the Shiva, I think.

Surely what Islam needs is a Refordmation so that people can get hold of this book and see what nonsense it is for themselves. The way I was asked whether I had read the book gave me the impression of people who were like European peasants in 1300 who were in awe of the "book" which they themselves could never read and wondered what incredible things they would find if they were allowed to read it.

Forget about finding individual paragraphs which are ridiculous, the whole book is just a heap of junk.
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10-07-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  This is interesting, I think. I have a feeling that most Muslims have not read the Koran and don't know what is in it. I think it may be the case that the Islamic world is in the position Christianity was a few hundred years ago when the NT was only in Latin and people started to translate it into their own languages. I don't know if this is the case and am interested in knowing if anyone has a view on that.

Yes, like with Christianity and a lot of other religions, most of the people have no clue what exactly their religion is about. But it is not because Qur'an is written in arabic. There are many many translations out there, and if one english translation sounds weird, there are 4-5 others to be found online. The reason is because people are lazy sheeps.

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  The point about the Koran is that when you read this book, expecting it to be something which is at least plausibly "wise" and "profound", you get, instead, something which is on the same level as the Book of Mormon. The Koran is complete and utter nonsense. It is unintelligible, repetitive, boring to the point of being mind numbing and stupid. I can't think of anything good to say about it.

To be fair, there are few good verses in it. But like any other holy book, absolutely most of it is trash. I don't think it is on the same level as the Book of Mormon. I suppose that is prejudice speaking. It mentions all characters which are mentioned in the bible as well and tries to tell their story in a more plausible manner. Most of the times it doesn't manage.

It is extremely repetitive. It is so often threatening with hell and promising heaven, it is astonishing. And it strongly discourages criticism and questioning. It is quite boring, as you say, so much that I have difficulties to go through 2 chapters a day!

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I suspect that the reason Islam is what it is today, is that most Muslims don't actually have a clue what the religion is about.

They define the religions from the bits and pieces they gathered for themselves. Much as christians do.

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I defy anyone to read this and not come away thinking "WTF, people actually buy into this meaningless garbage?".

Much the same with the bible, the book of mormon or any other holy book for that matter.

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It explains why I am finding Muslims not to be so in my face as Christians What can they say to me? They haven't read their own book, they wouldn't be able to understand it if they did and it is a supreme embarrassment.

In my experience more Muslims have read their book than christians theirs.

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  It is arranged in order of longest to shortest verses.

Simply false.

(10-07-2014 12:13 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  Mohammed was supposed to have been illiterate but wrote this stuff on bits of camel hide etc or someone else took notes of what he said while in a trance and these fragments were supposedly gathered up and made into a book.

Simply false again. The middle east was at that time and many centuries thereafter a thriving capital for trade between europe and asia. So he might rather have been a trader. And I actually never heard any other version. Doesn't mean it is correct though.

And camel hide? Not even worth commenting on.



All in all, regarding the religion and people who follow it, Islam is not very different from Christianity.

I value criticism, and believe that Islam deserves harsh criticism. But prejudice and contemptible accusations don't suit. I have the impression that you are biased.

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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11-07-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: Going through the Qur'an (update: 6.7.'14)
Another fun verse:

Quote:8:22: Indeed, the worst of living creatures in the sight of Allah are the deaf and dumb who do not use reason.

When I read this, I had to laugh out loud Big Grin The irony...

I think it will take me a month to go through this tedious book and note and comment everything that I find particularly noteworthy...

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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