Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
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13-02-2015, 12:35 AM
Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
I got tired of looking up and typing verses. It's about 14-20 pages long.
Dodgy

Page 1
BIBLE TRUTH
Learned from a lifetime of Bible study. Written near my death.
Humans are prone to sin. Adam and his descendants did; the Israelites did; christians did, and the Lord’s church went into apostasy after the first century. Some have thought that God would not have created humans if He had known that they would be so inclined to sin. But it is vain to speculate as to whether He would or not. If He did not know, it was because He deliberately chose not to know. If He knew, it was because in His divine wisdom He chose to create humans in spite of that fact.

Please note: before the foundation of the world God had designed the perfect plan whereby the humans of all nations could be redeemed and saved from their sins, Eph. 1: 4-7; 2 Tim. 1: 9-10; 1 Pet. 1: 18-20. Humans could not save themselves nor design such a plan. We may never realize or know why, but for some reason this required the death of the Son of God.

As things are today in our society, there is likely widespread belief that nothing is absolutely true, and no one can be absolutely depended on to tell the truth. But please note this Bible truth: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, “2 Tim. 3: 16. So the Bible can be depended on to teach the truth. It also proves itself to be true. And the Bible plainly states that God cannot lie, Titus 1: 2; Heb. 6: 18. God is true.

I now ask the reader to note this important truth which I emphasize and will refer to later. Humans have always manifested an almost irresistible urge to “do their own thing” in religion, and God has never accepted it. Cain’s unauthorized sacrifice was not accepted, Gen. 4: 5. Even faithful Moses went astray on one occasion, Num. 20: 7-12, and was not allowed to lead the Israelites into the promised land. Nadab and Abihu did their own thing, Lev. 10: 1-2, and died as a result. In the New Testament some Jews, called Judaizing teachers, tried to bind circumcision and keeping the law of Moses on christians, and caused much trouble in the Lord’s church, Acts 15: 1-2, 5 etc. I urge the reader to let these examples show clearly that humans cannot direct themselves religiously and be pleasing to God. Jeremiah, 10: 23, affirms this Bible truth. And the apostle John, 2 John 9, also warns against going beyond what is divinely authorized. God is the Father of our spirits, Heb. 12: 9. He has taken to Himself the directing of humans spiritually. Men may not realize this, but for them to usurp the directing of themselves spiritually would be to try to replace God, and put Him in the position of having to accept all the ignorant and foolish things they come up with in religion. People have demonstrated their inability to direct themselves spiritually in the human-crafted world religions. I plan to make an application of these things to the modern human created religions.
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13-02-2015, 01:03 AM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
Things that might give any of this any strength at all to begin with:

Any evidence that a god exists.

Any evidence that it is remotely akin to the Abrahamic god.

Any evidence that the biblical verses cited are any more authoritative than words on paper. (The verses themselves saying that they are true do not actually make them true.)

Without any of that, you might as well be talking about why the botanical space monkeys are angry at us for not properly tending to our ankle mojo.
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13-02-2015, 01:11 AM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
Yeah.

Calling all humanity evil is a little like saying it doesn't matter how horrible or light a wrongful deed is, I think. It's all the same level to God.

I also don't agree with him where he said that speculating God was vain. A follower is supposed to know the deity. Doing our own thing, as he seemed to put it, should include not accepting the bad parts of the deity or text and thinking up arguments to make it something else.

He apparently didn't apply this same logic to The Book of Mormon and The Koran, which have followers who believe their books were inspired by a god and are true.

"People have demonstrated their inability to direct themselves spiritually in the human-crafted world religions."

I thought this part was a little ironic. And actually, God kind of did lie a couple of times. He lied to Adam and Even saying "On the day thou eatest of the fruit of the tree of good and evil, thou shalt surely die." Well, they did exactly that, but it took hundreds of years for them to die.

God told Abraham that he and his descendants would live on some land. I don't remember reading about him, his son or his grandson moving in. Other people lived on it for the purpose of being killed, I guess.
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13-02-2015, 06:30 AM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
(13-02-2015 12:35 AM)Lienda Bella Wrote:  I got tired of looking up and typing verses. It's about 14-20 pages long.
Dodgy

Page 1
BIBLE TRUTH
Learned from a lifetime of Bible study. Written near my death.
Humans are prone to sin. Adam and his descendants did; the Israelites did; christians did, and the Lord’s church went into apostasy after the first century. Some have thought that God would not have created humans if He had known that they would be so inclined to sin. But it is vain to speculate as to whether He would or not. If He did not know, it was because He deliberately chose not to know. If He knew, it was because in His divine wisdom He chose to create humans in spite of that fact.

Please note: before the foundation of the world God had designed the perfect plan whereby the humans of all nations could be redeemed and saved from their sins, Eph. 1: 4-7; 2 Tim. 1: 9-10; 1 Pet. 1: 18-20. Humans could not save themselves nor design such a plan. We may never realize or know why, but for some reason this required the death of the Son of God.

As things are today in our society, there is likely widespread belief that nothing is absolutely true, and no one can be absolutely depended on to tell the truth. But please note this Bible truth: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, “2 Tim. 3: 16. So the Bible can be depended on to teach the truth. It also proves itself to be true. And the Bible plainly states that God cannot lie, Titus 1: 2; Heb. 6: 18. God is true.

I now ask the reader to note this important truth which I emphasize and will refer to later. Humans have always manifested an almost irresistible urge to “do their own thing” in religion, and God has never accepted it. Cain’s unauthorized sacrifice was not accepted, Gen. 4: 5. Even faithful Moses went astray on one occasion, Num. 20: 7-12, and was not allowed to lead the Israelites into the promised land. Nadab and Abihu did their own thing, Lev. 10: 1-2, and died as a result. In the New Testament some Jews, called Judaizing teachers, tried to bind circumcision and keeping the law of Moses on christians, and caused much trouble in the Lord’s church, Acts 15: 1-2, 5 etc. I urge the reader to let these examples show clearly that humans cannot direct themselves religiously and be pleasing to God. Jeremiah, 10: 23, affirms this Bible truth. And the apostle John, 2 John 9, also warns against going beyond what is divinely authorized. God is the Father of our spirits, Heb. 12: 9. He has taken to Himself the directing of humans spiritually. Men may not realize this, but for them to usurp the directing of themselves spiritually would be to try to replace God, and put Him in the position of having to accept all the ignorant and foolish things they come up with in religion. People have demonstrated their inability to direct themselves spiritually in the human-crafted world religions. I plan to make an application of these things to the modern human created religions.

So god creates humans, then tries to wipe them out because of their sin with a worldwide flood, even though he knew that we wouldn't change BOTH times. This god makes mistakes consistently, oh he also did this with Lucifer too, so YHWH is batting 0-3.
What we have here is a continuity mistake the writers of the bible made, asserting omniscience of a being while this being continuously makes mistakes is a big plot hole in their narrative.
Sort of like Frodo Baggins walking all of the way to Mordor when all he had to do is ride an eagle straight to the mountain and drop the stupid ring in, it would of only taken a few hours.

He's your grandpa, so you may not want to really be acerbic towards him, but if you wanted to mess with him ask him if he believes god is omnipresent, if he says yes, then ask him if god is at the tip of a penis engaged in anal sex or in the center of every turd. This makes god an intimate participant in every "sinful" act.

Asserting absurd qualities for your deity turns your deity into an absurdity.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-02-2015, 06:41 AM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
The quicksand of religion can mire your thoughts into a stagnant pool of few possibilities

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-02-2015, 07:35 AM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
Quote:If He did not know, it was because He deliberately chose not to know.

I got this far and realized that this approach would prove that God is not omnibenevolent. If you can make a decision with or without knowledge, it is your decision to remain blind to this knowledge, and the knowledge might be used to prevent suffering, remaining blind is willfully increasing the risk of suffering. To what end? Mysterious ways? Cop out.


Quote:But it is vain to speculate as to whether He would or not.
Quote:If He knew, it was because in His divine wisdom He chose to create humans in spite of that fact.

These two lines are put in to demonize speculation and skepticism. Just believe it cuz I said so.


It's basically the above reasons that I no longer try to debate the morality of God with believers. They'll play so fast and loose with what it means to be "good" or "all powerful", they'll resort to cop outs when cornered, and ultimately, they'll smugly tell you that it's pointless to question this and that you should just believe it, even if (no, especially if) it doesn't make sense.
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13-02-2015, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2015 10:16 PM by Lienda Bella.)
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
Thanks for sharing replies. Tongue I'm amused. I would like to tell him some things I think, but he would no doubt immediately try to 'correct' me. I figure he's too old for it anyway.

Page 2

God created us and He knows our capabilities. It is amazing what humans are able to accomplish. So let us be honest and admit that we waste much of our lives in idleness and the pursuit of vain worldly interests. (Facepalm .) God declared such a one a fool, Luke 12: 20. Oh, dear reader, how I urge you, there is nothing in this world or out of it that is important as pleasing God, obeying the gospel of Christ, and going to heaven when you die. God knows this, and He knows you are capable of knowing it. No one can number or comprehend the blessings that God has bestowed on humans, both physical and spiritual blessings. Let us admit that we owe a debt that we can never repay. The people of this nation have been especially greatly blessed. We may not be righteous enough to know or admit it, but it is obvious that if an accountable person is lost, God is not unrighteous in consigning him to hell. I implore the reader to realize the importance of this matter. To illustrate, and by way of a comparison, if this were a mere matter of life or death perhaps a person could afford to be a little careless. But, oh dear reader, not in this matter of obeying the gospel of Christ, living faithfully, and going to heaven when you die.

Do not be deceived by the lusts of the flesh, or of worldly ambitions or achievements, or of the pride of mortal life. “For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever” 1 Jno. 2: 16-17. For what is more important, vain and foolish things of a short lifetime, or the eternal joys of Heaven? Marriage is authorized for the propagation of the human race, but the Devil’s success in tempting humans to indulge in sexual practices outside of marriage is one of his greatest achievements. His promise of pleasure in such sins is of short duration, and leads to sorrow, shame, regret and remorse. How many high politicians and strong christians have been thus deceived! Dear reader, beware “. . . let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall,” 1 Cor. 10:12. Really now, just what is the attraction? All such things involving the flesh is nasty, stinks, and is sinful. Let us not be deceived by the Devil, and go into the Judgment and there learn that we have given up a wonderful eternal home in Heaven in order to briefly have a tub of putrid flesh!

Two Bible truths reveal in some way the greatness and importance of salvation and eternal life in heaven; that it cost the life of the sinless Son of God, and eternal punishment in hell on those who are lost. As noted before, God designed the perfect plan for saving sinners before the world was created, 2 Tim. 1: 9-10. Humans could not save themselves by paying the price for their redemption. For all had sinned, Rom. 3: 23. Rom. 3: 24-26 reveals that for God to be just in justifying sinners it was necessary for Jesus to die in order for sinners to be redeemed. Heb. 9: 22 states that “without shedding of blood is no remission,” and 10: 4 adds that “. . . it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.” But Heb. 9: 12 reveals that the spotless, only begotten Son of God by his own blood . . . entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.” Oh, surely we can see and realize just how helpless and hopeless humans were and are without the wonderful mercy and grace of God, as it is displayed in the perfect plan that He designed and carried out that we might be saved from our sins. But I am planning to charge that human devised Churches, such as the Baptists and Methodists and others, ignore God’s marvelous plan to save the human race from their sins.

End page.

He put animals to the plow when he was a little kid. I don't personally feel that satellites, the toilet, refrigeration, plumbing, radio, etc. were wasted pursuits.

I ignored a lot of the problems the world had and didn't care much about nature, pollution and the universe the same way I do now. After all, it was nothing compared to the mysterious afterlife. Honestly, I would prefer the non-religious side for nurturing children, self-worth and skills.

I don't want to go to Heaven and praise the God I discovered in the bible. No thanks! The idea makes me feel disturbed.

About shame. Every prayer I heard at church growing up started with "Lord please forgive us..." We were to meditate on our sinfulness during the Lord supper, and take this attitude to every other area of our lives. God liked it when we felt low with ourselves. It also didn't matter how bad the violent act was, you were to forgive or risk going to hellfire. Granted, there are petty things that most of us need to let go, but victims don't need threats.

Why yes. I would like to have a big tub of hairy, sweaty man flesh, but only once?
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13-02-2015, 10:16 PM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
Pity him. His mind is in a cage. All other religions are human created, except his. Just reading the bible and believing it will make you crazy.
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14-02-2015, 06:27 PM
RE: Going through what my Grandpa typed to convert.
It bothers me how he worries about hell. He certainly wouldn't put his son into a fire brand torture chamber, even though he and his wife pretty much screwed him out of 8 thousand or more dollars. My uncle wasn't beaten in his youth like he was either.
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