Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
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07-10-2013, 12:57 AM
Thumbs Up Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
Hey guys, I have a friend of mine who posted on Facebook that he would like to have his faith in christ tested, because he thinks that if there is something out there that can shake his faith, then his faith is not worth having.

Here's his post:

:I wish to test the validity of my faith in Jesus and Christianity, not wishing to debate anyone here, rather i'm looking for articles with arguments against the faith and/or God, Jesus. Obviously I can search google, but just wondering if any of my friends can help me out If my faith is not true, then why should I believe it, let alone why should you believe it.:

I practically jumped for joy when i saw this, but i was stumped when i finally came down to thinking of a great article to send a theist asking this question. I just can't decide on one or two articles since this seems like such a pivotal point for my friend, and i want to be as effective as possible.

So...I NEED YOUR HELP. Share any input/articles you guys may have, thanks.
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07-10-2013, 01:10 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
(07-10-2013 12:57 AM)Shawnzy Wrote:  Hey guys, I have a friend of mine who posted on Facebook that he would like to have his faith in christ tested, because he thinks that if there is something out there that can shake his faith, then his faith is not worth having.

Here's his post:

:I wish to test the validity of my faith in Jesus and Christianity, not wishing to debate anyone here, rather i'm looking for articles with arguments against the faith and/or God, Jesus. Obviously I can search google, but just wondering if any of my friends can help me out If my faith is not true, then why should I believe it, let alone why should you believe it.:

I practically jumped for joy when i saw this, but i was stumped when i finally came down to thinking of a great article to send a theist asking this question. I just can't decide on one or two articles since this seems like such a pivotal point for my friend, and i want to be as effective as possible.

So...I NEED YOUR HELP. Share any input/articles you guys may have, thanks.

Need more details.

Christianity can take many forms. What form does hers take? Is she a Biblical literalist? Does she believe in the torture-porn hell or just the abstract "separation from God" concept of it? What personal relationship does she feel she has with God, if any? How did she come to her faith? What role does it play in her life?

There isn't a single golden bullet. Not all forms of Christianity are the same, and our response must reflect that. You have to customize the arguments to the person.
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07-10-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
Tell 'er to google Thomas Paine, Age of Reason. I was made aware of it here, there's a forum thread somewhere.

It's a brilliant book, and it's not a polemic.
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07-10-2013, 02:38 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
(07-10-2013 01:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  Tell 'er to google Thomas Paine, Age of Reason. I was made aware of it here, there's a forum thread somewhere.

It's a brilliant book, and it's not a polemic.

Oooh, late 1700s, nice choice.

Also, if she's a "salvation through belief" type, point her towards this gem from the late 1800s.





(EDIT: The notions of family are a bit dated, but were very progressive for the time.)
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07-10-2013, 06:37 AM (This post was last modified: 07-10-2013 07:15 AM by Airyaman.)
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
Just tell him to read the old testament without Christian blinders.
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07-10-2013, 06:47 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
(07-10-2013 12:57 AM)Shawnzy Wrote:  Hey guys, I have a friend of mine who posted on Facebook that he would like to have his faith in christ tested, because he thinks that if there is something out there that can shake his faith, then his faith is not worth having.

Here's his post:

:I wish to test the validity of my faith in Jesus and Christianity, not wishing to debate anyone here, rather i'm looking for articles with arguments against the faith and/or God, Jesus. Obviously I can search google, but just wondering if any of my friends can help me out If my faith is not true, then why should I believe it, let alone why should you believe it.:

I practically jumped for joy when i saw this, but i was stumped when i finally came down to thinking of a great article to send a theist asking this question. I just can't decide on one or two articles since this seems like such a pivotal point for my friend, and i want to be as effective as possible.

So...I NEED YOUR HELP. Share any input/articles you guys may have, thanks.

I am not sure how sincere he is. Maybe he just wants to confirm what he already beliefs. He is asking others to come up with arguments against God, instead
of thinking for himself. What will he do when confronted with an argument against God? He will go to his pastor (or some religious website) and look for a rebuttal.
After that he can claim that he is 100% sure of his faith, because no-one could give a good argument against God. Perhaps it is just me being skeptical though.
But it would be interesting to see what he would do if confronted with something
that will "shake his faith".
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07-10-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
Hey guys, thanks for the input. I don't really think the best tact would be to get all the details about his particular beliefs from him since I feel it would only wear down his current interest in anything that may oppose his viewpoint. Are there any articles you know of that go after faith being unreliable to find out truth that you guys know of?
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07-10-2013, 11:13 AM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
I know there's no article thats a magic bullet article, i just wanna be effective as i can given the circumstances.
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07-10-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
An interesting set of points to explore then:

The Gnostic gospels (the ones that didn't make the new testament cut). To add to this one the council of Ecclesiastes and WHY these gospels didn't make the cut.

The accounts of Pontius Pilot and of Roman customs and practices in their territories in the Golden Age of Rome. I think I have a book here somewhere....

The stories of OTHER people contemporary with Jesus who claimed the same things as he did, and who had the same stories associated with them. I'm not sure, but I think there's an account somewhere of a man named Samuel or something of the sort.

If you're looking to shake free dogma, I would point you to books on Roman law, and the practices of oration and storytelling in early bronze age cultures. Particularly look at the purpose of written histories and texts to these people. Examination of the role of scribes and the purpose and practices in recording their histories.
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07-10-2013, 12:24 PM
RE: Golden opportunity to rid a theist of the faith virus
Maybe Richard Carrier, Bart Ehrman, etc. could address the historicity aspects of christianity. I also like the YT channel that TheraminTrees has. Several of his vids deal with deconversion in a very straightforward, non-confrontational manner. It just depends on the individual as to what sort of material would be persuasive.
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