Good Christian Love
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
28-08-2014, 02:14 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 12:17 PM)wazzel Wrote:  
Quote:"Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."[72]

[72] "Catechism of the Catholic Church, para. 2359". Catholic Church.

Wow, that's one hell of an oxymoron right there. Laugh out load

"Newton's third law: The only way humans have ever figured out of getting somewhere is to leave something behind." - TARS, Interstellar
"Newtons drittes Gesetz: Der einzige Weg wie Menschen irgendwo hin kommen, ist der dass sie etwas zur├╝cklassen." - TARS, Interstellar
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 02:15 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 02:10 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 01:56 PM)Kemasyn Wrote:  I still do not understand where religion trumps that of the relationship between a parent and child. I watched this video while at work, wasn't a good idea to do that, I wanted to cry. To be shunned by your family because of who you are saddens me yet the largest groups around for kids to have social exposure outside of schools are churches and church groups. Where do they go, who do they turn to. Even at 20 years old, you have yet to finish an education or establish a decent paying job or career. I would like to find a way to figure out how to get a group going focusing on youth and young adults that is non-religious that gives them a safe place to socialize, much like church youth groups or get togethers without the exposure to god and religion.

Unfortunately religion trumps reason but is exceptionally good at rejection.

Yes unfortunately so. Giving me more desire to figure out a way to work with youth again for support of the non-religious and that life is what you make it, religion not included.

I tend to ask random questions, sometime stupid ones, but I can almost guarantee I'm smarter for asking than not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 02:36 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
Religious or not......this hurts to see. To talk that way about your own son and to take it even a step further and strike them simply because they don't agree with you makes you the lowest type of person. I think it just hits me a certain way because I've grown up around people like this in Mississippi. It's not just the homosexuality they have problems with too but interracial marriage or even dating entices the same type of reaction. I had my first girl friend who was white break up with me because her dad told her "You're free to make your own choices but you will not date a nigger while living under my roof". Kind of reminded me of an other ultimatum. All in all these types of people just live for this type of drama and hatred...they always have a scapegoat. I just think all that hate has to be damn exhausting.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like MrKrispy601's post
28-08-2014, 02:39 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 01:14 PM)CiderThinker Wrote:  How do you know that that is her entire rationale - "It's wrong because the bible says so" may be her entire argument in that emotional moment. She may have ethically discerned it using biblical ethics...

"Biblical ethics" is a new one on me - can you summarise what that is in a nutshell?

It sounds like concrete operational thinking to me though (rather than formal operational rational thinking) because it's still connecting back to a moral authority.

Phil
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 02:56 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 01:50 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  I have a new daughter now and a she's a new person and she is light years happier.

And doubtless extremely proud of her father! I know how incredibly proud I was of my own father that he was able to accept my situation and offer me full support over it, even though I could tell he was struggling quite badly with his social conditioning over the issue.

Phil
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 01:56 PM)Kemasyn Wrote:  I still do not understand where religion trumps that of the relationship between a parent and child.

I think it's worth trying to understand it. It's just fact that it occurs, and if we truly want to make the world a better place, we need to rationally understand the underlying psychological phenomena.

Because it occurs, I think it's reasonable to suppose that for the parents who do it, it's less disturbing for them to reject their child than it would be to reject their religious conditioning, otherwise they would make a different choice. Given how painful it must be to reject one's own child, that just gives insight into how disturbing it must be for some to step back from their religious conditioning.

It's easy for those of us outside of religion to trivialise the process of stepping away from it, we might feel we choose our beliefs, so why can't they?

That's not how it works - they might have to endure some profoundly disturbing feelings if they were to step outside of the patterns of their conditioning.

Phil
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 03:43 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 12:04 PM)phil.a Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 11:51 AM)Impulse Wrote:  However, as a father, I also know that there is almost nothing that would make me disown my children. Perhaps if one of them committed mass murders or something as bad, my heart could change.
...
Although don't you see that for a religious fundamentalist, it's potentially as disturbing to have a homosexual son as to have a pedophile son or a murderer son? That's how "gay" can actually appear in their (rather ignorant) awareness.
My next sentence was " But I'm not sure I could disown them even then." So it doesn't matter in my mind if they do see homosexuality that way. And I also don't agree that they do. What they "see" is their god says it's wrong. Therefore, it's wrong to them (level of wrong doesn't matter) and they could possibly go to hell for not standing up against it.

(28-08-2014 12:04 PM)phil.a Wrote:  A religious fundamentalist can't do that. They lack the capacity to think rationally (examine cause and effect) so they lack the capacity to differentiate such things and simply have to go on what their religion tells them is unacceptable.
I don't agree with this either. They (more accurately "some") may lack the capacity to think rationally about religion specifically, but I don't think "capacity" is the right word. They have the capacity, they just don't use it because they are blinded by fear and emotions. The problem I'm having is why the whole thought of disowning their child doesn't become a stronger blinder that overrules the fear and emotions. They can somehow do wrong to their child that they see physically standing before them - the child that they have raised and lived with for years and supposedly loved - just to avoid doing wrong to a being that they can't see and only believe exists. I was once a believer too and lesser cognitive dissonance brought me out. How strong does it have to get for these people before they open their eyes? Dodgy I just can't excuse these people.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 03:54 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 01:06 PM)phil.a Wrote:  Yup - with respect to this situation it's reasonable to do so. A pre-rational thinker receives their morality from an external authority, whereas a rational thinker ethically discerns (works it out themselves).
Yes, except when religion is introduced. Because religion has the magic, faith, god's incomprehensible-by-human-minds excuse plan, blah, blah, blah... it trumps all rationality. Having god as an external moral authority is not representative of a particular level of cognitive ability. Many faithful are quite rational about everything else. With religion comes "leave your thinking at the door" so, while rationality is technically still available for use, they don't even consider using it when it comes to religion. To them, it's not applicable.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 04:15 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 03:10 PM)phil.a Wrote:  
(28-08-2014 01:56 PM)Kemasyn Wrote:  I still do not understand where religion trumps that of the relationship between a parent and child.

I think it's worth trying to understand it. It's just fact that it occurs, and if we truly want to make the world a better place, we need to rationally understand the underlying psychological phenomena.

Because it occurs, I think it's reasonable to suppose that for the parents who do it, it's less disturbing for them to reject their child than it would be to reject their religious conditioning, otherwise they would make a different choice. Given how painful it must be to reject one's own child, that just gives insight into how disturbing it must be for some to step back from their religious conditioning.

It's easy for those of us outside of religion to trivialise the process of stepping away from it, we might feel we choose our beliefs, so why can't they?

That's not how it works - they might have to endure some profoundly disturbing feelings if they were to step outside of the patterns of their conditioning.

Phil

I wonder if it comes from a selfish place. Not intentionally mind you, but that hard to break cognitive dissonance, and our brain's desperate need to correct it. Our brain is also wired to correct cognitive dissonances in ways favorable to ourselves.

That would mean in situations like this, the mother has two options that I can see on how to resolve this dissonance:

1. Admit: "maybe what I've been taught on this subject wasn't exactly right, maybe I can love my son". This would be at great harm to her ego. It would mean some of the things she fundamentally believes and bases her entire life on has some flaws. This scenario is not likely for anyone who is not open minded, ok with being wrong, or lacking in critical thinking. Brain chemistry in a person like this would fight tooth and nail to hang on to her ego wrapped up in it's fundamental beliefs.

2. Disown her son, proving to herself and everyone else that she did the right thing, that she's been right all along. This keeps her ego intact, and has the added negative effect of hardening her feelings on the subject. Making it harder to ever come to terms with her son's sexuality.

These are two ways I can think of to resolve the cognitive dissonance she was dealing with, and I can understand why she chose the way she did it. Again, though I don't think that she is aware of what I laid out, nor did she do this consciously. If that makes sense?

That said, I hate what this family has done to this young man. It is awful, and heartbreaking. Made me cry too, bows. In no way am I condoning what she did, this woman is awful, and so is the father. Just saying I may understand how/why this turned out the way it did Undecided

I hope that the world turns, and things get better. But what I hope most of all is that you understand what I mean when I tell you that, even though I do not know you, and even though I may never meet you, laugh with you, cry with you, or kiss you, I love you. With all my heart, I love you. - V for Vendetta
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-08-2014, 04:56 PM
RE: Good Christian Love
(28-08-2014 11:49 AM)phil.a Wrote:  And she'll still love him, because she can't help it, he is her child so she is biologically programmed that way.

I can assure you that this is not always true. My mother was NOT biologically programmed to love me...in fact, I don't think she is capable of loving anyone other than herself.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: