Good Christian Love
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31-08-2014, 03:27 AM
RE: Good Christian Love
Impulse:

Thanks for that, it's certainly very interesting to hear more about religion from the "inside", so to speak. The more I hear about it, the more I am left feeling very grateful for my non-religious upbringing. From the situation as described, I'm amazed that people can find the psychological resources to step back from it all and acquire psychological independence. One interesting thing I have noticed from reading people's de-conversion stories on this site is that the stories do mirror very closely my own experience of coming out as a gay man. There's the same sense of people waking up to the realisation that they themselves don't fit in to the worldview storyline of their upbringing, and for youngsters, all the same questions of wether or not to "come out" to their family (and risk really rocking the boat quite dangerously, if their parents are religious fundamentalists).

Incidentally - It's obviously possible to frame religious homophobia as "bad", but it occurs to me that we could frame that the other way around, in the sense that (in the information age, where it's easy to get the information needed to hold one's own authentic position with confidence) if a religious upbringing is pitted up against the human sex drive, i can't see that religion will often win against that primal instinct. So from that perspective, religious bigotry is an asset to the atheist cause because it's actually a cause for people who don't feel they fit in to consider leaving religion.

I understand your point about religion only holding back development in the specific domain of aspects of life it itself touches (e.g. it definitely does not hold an individual back in all aspects of life), although what did you think about the idea I posted in this post about different lines or domains of psychological development?

Re religion being about what's not, what I am trying to communicate here is perhaps a bit obscure. Basically what I am saying is that absolute and concrete the beliefs don't provide a nutritious petri dish for psychological growth. In fact quite the opposite, as you've noted - only an environment where beliefs are a bit more diaphanous and things may be questioned supports the possibility of individual growth. But if we grow up in a religious household, it is that lack of growth in us (in that particular domain of life) which we - due to our lack of development in that area, go on to pass on to our own children. So it's like a sort of reincarnating blind spot that gets handed down through the generations.

But basically, the more concrete and absolute the beliefs, then the less conscious the person actually is, so those concrete and absolute beliefs are evidence of a lack of consciousness.

Phil
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02-09-2014, 10:03 AM
RE: Good Christian Love
Sorry for the delayed reply. I had a full weekend.

(31-08-2014 03:27 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Incidentally - It's obviously possible to frame religious homophobia as "bad", but it occurs to me that we could frame that the other way around, in the sense that (in the information age, where it's easy to get the information needed to hold one's own authentic position with confidence) if a religious upbringing is pitted up against the human sex drive, i can't see that religion will often win against that primal instinct. So from that perspective, religious bigotry is an asset to the atheist cause because it's actually a cause for people who don't feel they fit in to consider leaving religion.
Yes, it actually had a lot to do with my own apostasy. I am not homosexual myself, but many of my college friends were and it bothered me tremendously that any god would condemn them just for being themselves. The more people come to accept homosexuals, the more it may possibly contribute to doubts for other people. At least I hope so.

(31-08-2014 03:27 AM)phil.a Wrote:  I understand your point about religion only holding back development in the specific domain of aspects of life it itself touches (e.g. it definitely does not hold an individual back in all aspects of life), although what did you think about the idea I posted in this post about different lines or domains of psychological development?
I think you are correct about different domains of psychological development. It's one of the reasons I am reluctant to fully embrace stage theories of development. While those theories provide a needed framework for further research, in reality, I think people develop at different rates and in different ways. One of those different ways would be that some cognitive areas develop at different rates than others. That makes a lot of sense to me.

(31-08-2014 03:27 AM)phil.a Wrote:  Re religion being about what's not, what I am trying to communicate here is perhaps a bit obscure. Basically what I am saying is that absolute and concrete the beliefs don't provide a nutritious petri dish for psychological growth. In fact quite the opposite, as you've noted - only an environment where beliefs are a bit more diaphanous and things may be questioned supports the possibility of individual growth. But if we grow up in a religious household, it is that lack of growth in us (in that particular domain of life) which we - due to our lack of development in that area, go on to pass on to our own children. So it's like a sort of reincarnating blind spot that gets handed down through the generations.

But basically, the more concrete and absolute the beliefs, then the less conscious the person actually is, so those concrete and absolute beliefs are evidence of a lack of consciousness.
I think I understand the point you are making and I think it has some merit. I particularly like the way you put it with the reincarnating blind spot.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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