Good God? I don't fucking think so.
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16-09-2014, 09:30 PM (This post was last modified: 17-09-2014 03:07 PM by Atothetheist.)
Good God? I don't fucking think so.
So, my religious classes are covering Social Justice, and how being a Christian fits into that (I have my own objections that a 'Christian' life, according to the bible is the optimal life to live to be just, but that's for another thread), and how God, good as he is, commands us to do good.

Now, that's all well and good (no seriously, people doing good is... Well, good), but what about God? Isn't he 'compelled' to do good? Is he not?

And what is Good anyways? Is Good, like William Lane Craig says, whatever God commands? Is it entirely separated from God? These are all very good questions, and they all have varying answers, so excuse me if I just gloss over my personal ideas on what is Good, and what is Bad, with generalizations that don't necessarily cover all the possible avenues of reality.

So without further ado:

Good: Something that promotes your over-all well-being (and other's) without drastically lowering the well-being of other's. (The benefit has to outweigh the cost)

Bad: The exact opposite.

Now. I am not going to argue that it's the best definition for Good and bad, or moral and immoral, it's just the system I use. However, if you want to discuss what system you use to judge God as good or not, you are free to do so. Or, if you are like Kingschosen (I miss that guy), and you believe God can't be judged either or, please share your opinions, I am more than happy to promote discussion in this area.

But I digress.

Anyways, I am going to break and section off certain things, so bare with me if this is a long post.

Why I consider God to be Able to be Scrutinized by the Human Perspective

The first section of my post is going to be dedicated to why I believe people like Kingschosen (no offense, buddy) are wrong to claim that there God can't be judged by human standards. First of all, by what standard are they using to judge God as un-judge-able (sp?)? God's? Where did they get God's standard from? The Bible (a book written by... You guessed it! Humans)? Was it a feeling? If so, didn't you have to interpret that feeling? Did God command it? Didn't you have to interpret what he meant?

Semantics aside, I am simply pointing out that the claim that we can't judge God by human standards is bullshit. Because we need to use the human perspective to judge anything. To say something is un-judge-able is to not have the ability to talk about IT at all! (And even that can be construed as a judgment!) Also, if your God gave us a perspective, wouldn't he know we were going to use it? If so, why didn't he make it explicitly known that we can't judge him with it?

It only seems to make sense that God since God gave us the ability to judge what is good and evil (And techincally it's not a gift, but rather something we took for ourselves, and were dearly punished for it*), that we should use that ability on God? What are your opinions on this?

*I'll get to that later

Since I believe God can be judged, I judge him as... Well, an asshole

This really shouldn't need any elaboration, but just in case some new forum users do not know, God has killed. In fact, if some tales are to be believed, he is still killing, or at the very least, responsible for the deaths that are happening everyday.

Hell the TTA main site has a whole page dedicated to Bible Atrocities, and more than a fair bit is because God killed people. This is where the Problem of Evil is very prevalent, and because of the things He has supposedly done are recorded, I can use my judgement to, well, judge his actions.

The main thing to look at is necessity. Did God really need to kill those first-Borns? Or flood the earth? Was the death of thousands, millions really needed? Short answer: no.

No, they weren't. Necessity is meaningless to the God of the Old Testament. He could have easily teleported the Israelites out of Egypt. He could have spared the animals. He could have spared the children. Instead, he decided to kill them.

He slaughtered the innocents. He butchered those who had no choice in Pharoah's decision.... Does this seem like a just God to you? Is he the one that compels me to love people as myself? Is he the one that gave me my morality?

Because I feel I can't convey it any better than this video, I am going to embed it to the post, as well as give you a link to the full movie after:



*

The movie is called God on Trial, click here to see it on YouTube

God isn't just an asshole. He is a monster. He seeks not to compel us to do good, but to only serve his will. He doesn't even come close to being just. Now, I use the Old Testament as an example because Exodus was used as an example of God's 'Mercy.'

Can anyone here honestly say that Exodus was the work of a 'Merciful' God?

The Concept of God

Alright, let's say that I proved my point. Let's say, for argument's sake, I had won the argument that God (The one depicted in the Old Testament, or just an all-powerful one in general) is an asshole/monster.

Surely, The concept of God is one that inspires goodness. What harm can the concept do?

Well, let's think about this for a moment.

The concept of a being that KNOWS (there is no guesswork with God) everything, can DO* (See God-Rock paradox for my doubts on this one), and LOVES you might seem to be an appealing one. However, I have learned that this is a toxic concept, brought about by pure ignorance of the universe and it's mechanics.

This concept demands blind obedience. There can be no doubt that this God, who knows what is best for you (and if you don't listen to him, or rather his followers, he will burn you alive.), can't be gone against. After all, you are merely human, and he has infinite wisdom. This concept shuns doubt, and proof and forces you to rely on the figments of faith to guide you along on your life.

This is not the way to live, ladies and gentlemen.

What's better, is that this concept can't even speak for itself, but rather implements 'mouth-pieces' to speak for them. Facepalm

Just think of how many pious priests abused the concept for their own gain? How many men, women and children were taken advantage of, simply because they were told that God knew better than them?

This concept squashes any notion of thinking for yourself, and thrusts onto you an obligation to do the will of others. I say obligate because of the eternal punishment that awaits you if you do not do as you are commanded (I'll get to the afterlife later on). How can anyone say this concept is good?

If you are doing good because you are afraid of punishment, you are doing it wrong. This is not a good concept. It is a concept based on coercion and fucking lies.

I may not hate God (even though I argue that as a fiction character, he is at the very least a fucking tyrannical asshat that deserves nothing but loathing), but I SURE AS HELL HATE THE CONCEPT.

I was never one to accept that someone knew better how to run MY life than myself. And, at the very least, I would like to be able to learn from the person how to run it better, not just blindly follow by faith.

Afterlife: A just proposition? Fuck no!

Think about it. Do finite actions deserve infinite punishment? Do finite actions deserve eternal bliss?

Hell no.

If you feel the opposite, please tell me why.

(shortest section EVAR!)

But What about Free Will...?

Yeah, what about it? Drinking Beverage.

Okay, let's say Free Will is a thing (not getting into it here), that still does not excuse God from simply watching women and children get abused. Men getting killed, babies dying.

Scenario: You are a cop, and you walk down your beat and you see a woman being raped. You have the power to stop it, but you decide not to, because that would be infringing on the rapists free will.

(People tend to ignore the woman's free will on not being raped).

If you were the cop, people would never view you as good. Insert God in place of the Cop, and suddenly it's alright....
Weeping

Also, why is it bad that God infringes on our Free Will?

But let's talk about Natural disasters... Where is God there? Why did God make Natural disasters? What was the point to diseases?

Can any theist give me a good answer to that without making your a God be in an unfavorable light?

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17-09-2014, 12:21 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
Of course God isn't good. He gave us

Stalin
[Image: Stalin1952.jpg]

Mao Zedong
[Image: mao_zedong_portrait_by_shitalloverhumanity-d5fv7lh.jpg]

Tim Hortons
[Image: tim-hortonslogo.jpg]

Disney
[Image: Walt_disney_pictures.jpg]

Jabba the Hutt
[Image: tumblr_ludru27O8c1qd39nmo1_500.jpg]

Ke$ha
[Image: kesha_510x380.jpg]

and worst of all, the Canadian fruit fly.
[Image: 1401970999_justin-bieber-lg.jpg]

Anybody with a brown eye can see that.

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17-09-2014, 12:41 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
Don't believe in good and bad, only cause and effect. We are merely vessels for biochemical reactions doing what we do. Some of us function differently than others. Thus, a serial killer goat molester isn't an evil person. It might still benefit the majority to remove them from society due their incompatible differences with the majority, but nothing personal.

'Murican Canadian
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17-09-2014, 12:48 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 12:41 AM)yakherder Wrote:  Don't believe in good and bad, only cause and effect. We are merely vessels for biochemical reactions doing what we do. Some of us function differently than others. Thus, a serial killer goat molester isn't an evil person. It might still benefit the majority to remove them from society due their incompatible differences with the majority, but nothing personal.

There is beneficial and harmful -- those elements harmful to the well-being of the collective are typically considered to be bad.

Stop trying to be overly meta. Drinking Beverage

In case you didn't pick up on it, I am not being critical. I am just being weird and tired.

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17-09-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
Just trying to make excuses for myself.

'Murican Canadian
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17-09-2014, 01:23 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 12:21 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Of course God isn't good. He gave us

Tim Hortons
[Image: tim-hortonslogo.jpg]


and worst of all, the Canadian fruit fly.
[Image: 1401970999_justin-bieber-lg.jpg]

Anybody with a brown eye can see that.

Do you have a secret hatred for Canada?

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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17-09-2014, 01:23 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
What if the goats are sexy?
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17-09-2014, 01:26 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 01:23 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What if the goats are sexy?

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"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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17-09-2014, 01:32 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
If goats are sexy, that is merely an indicator that your pheromone receptors are either prone to accepting goat pheromones over human pheromones or are unable to differentiate between the two. Not your fault.

'Murican Canadian
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17-09-2014, 01:57 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
Oh thank...umm...god. I was starting to think there might be something wrong with me.
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