Good God? I don't fucking think so.
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17-09-2014, 03:30 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
Now yaks on the other hand... that's a sexy beast regardless of who you are.

'Murican Canadian
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17-09-2014, 06:25 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
What standards do you use to Judge what is Good or Bad (or whatever words you use to substitute.)? Does God fall into the realm of Judging with that standard?

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17-09-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 01:26 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(17-09-2014 01:23 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  What if the goats are sexy?

[Image: 8388116954_9d21af96b5_m.jpg]

That's a sheep, not a goat.


Just sayin'

*braces for sheep shagging jokes by DL and Rev*

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17-09-2014, 07:01 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 12:21 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Of course God isn't good. He gave us

Stalin...

No, not God's fault. All of those things happened after the fall, and are a direct result of our sinful nature. Especially the last one.

Tongue
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17-09-2014, 07:20 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
How would we know if god is good or evil? Maybe this is the true test, you're indoctrinated to believe this entity is good, yet you read all of these atrocities that it has committed and you see all of the suffering in the world and come to a very different conclusion about the nature of this thing.

It amuses me that theists constantly assert morality comes from their deity, yet there are hundred's of thousands of religions each asserting their own moral code. Isn't this exactly what you would expect from a bunch of hairless apes just making stuff up?

Actually, I think a case can be made that the moral behavior we see in apes is superior to the moral codes in many religions. If a chimp does something wrong, it will get the crap beat out of it by it's peers, the punishment ends there. Religion puts forth the concept that even one wrong, finite deed can give you infinite punishment, it takes some crazy-ass monkeys to come up with something that stupid.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-09-2014, 08:26 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
I've said this before....

God is the kind of character that gets all the credit, this includes anything difficult to explain that can be twisted into a positive, and none of the blame. He's got his very own scapegoat, satan, for taking the blame.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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17-09-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
... and if not Satan then human "sin" that is some kind of essence that has infected and altered the physical universe in ways that make it hard for us.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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17-09-2014, 10:47 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 01:23 AM)JDog554 Wrote:  Do you have a secret hatred for Canada?

No, I actually love Canada. I just think those that Tim Hortons and the Canadian fruit fly are two of the three worst things about Canada.

The third thing being Canada's little United States, Toronto.

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17-09-2014, 10:51 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(16-09-2014 09:30 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  So, my religious classes are covering Social Justice, and how being a Christian fits into that (I have my own objections that a 'Christian' life, according to the bible is the optimal life to live to be just, but that's for another thread), and how God, good as he is, commands us to do good.

Now, that's all well and good (no seriously, people doing good is... Well, good), but what about God? Isn't he 'compelled' to do good? Is he not?

And what is Good anyways? Is Good, like William Lane Craig says, whatever God commands? Is it entirely separated from God? These are all very good questions, and they all have varying answers, so excuse me if I just gloss over my personal ideas on what is Good, and what is Bad, with generalizations that don't necessarily cover all the possible avenues of reality.

So without further ado:

Good: Something that promotes your over-all well-being (and other's) without drastically lowering the well-being of other's. (The benefit has to outweigh the cost)

Bad: The exact opposite.

Now. I am not going to argue that it's the best definition for Good and bad, or moral and immoral, it's just the system I use. However, if you want to discuss what system you use to judge God as good or not, you are free to do so. Or, if you are like Kingschosen (I miss that guy), and you believe God can't be judged either or, please share your opinions, I am more than happy to promote discussion in this area.

But I digress.

Anyways, I am going to break and section off certain things, so bare with me if this is a long post.

Why I consider God to be Able to be Scrutinized by the Human Perspective

The first section of my post is going to be dedicated to why I believe people like Kingschosen (no offense, buddy) are wrong to claim that there God can't be judged by human standards. First of all, by what standard are they using to judge God as un-judge-able (sp?)? God's? Where did they get God's standard from? The Bible (a book written by... You guessed it! Humans)? Was it a feeling? If so, didn't you have to interpret that feeling? Did God command it? Didn't you have to interpret what he meant?

Semantics aside, I am simply pointing out that the claim that we can't judge God by human standards is bullshit. Because we need to use the human perspective to judge anything. To say something is un-judge-able is to not have the ability to talk about IT at all! (And even that can be construed as a judgment!) Also, if your God gave us a perspective, wouldn't he know we were going to use it? If so, why didn't he make it explicitly known that we can't judge him with it?

It only seems to make sense that God since God gave us the ability to judge what is good and evil (And techincally it's not a gift, but rather something we took for ourselves, and were dearly punished for it*), that we should use that ability on God? What are your opinions on this?

*I'll get to that later

Since I believe God can be judged, I judge him as... Well, an asshole

This really shouldn't need any elaboration, but just in case some new forum users do not know, God has killed. In fact, if some tales are to be believed, he is still killing, or at the very least, responsible for the deaths that are happening everyday.

Hell the TTA main site has a whole page dedicated to Bible Atrocities, and more than a fair bit is because God killed people. This is where the Problem of Evil is very prevalent, and because of the things He has supposedly done are recorded, I can use my judgement to, well, judge his actions.

The main thing to look at is necessity. Did God really need to kill those first-Borns? Or flood the earth? Was the death of thousands, millions really needed? Short answer: no.

No, they weren't. Necessity is meaningless to the God of the Old Testament. He could have easily teleported the Israelites out of Egypt. He could have spared the animals. He could have spared the children. Instead, he decided to kill them.

He slaughtered the innocents. He butchered those who had no choice in Pharoah's decision.... Does this seem like a just God to you? Is he the one that compels me to love people as myself? Is he the one that gave me my morality?

Because I feel I can't convey it any better than this video, I am going to embed it to the post, as well as give you a link to the full movie after:



*

The movie is called God on Trial, click here to see it on YouTube

God isn't just an asshole. He is a monster. He seeks not to compel us to do good, but to only serve his will. He doesn't even come close to being just. Now, I use the Old Testament as an example because Exodus was used as an example of God's 'Mercy.'

Can anyone here honestly say that Exodus was the work of a 'Merciful' God?

The Concept of God

Work in progress, will return to finishing this part after a good nights rest.

Since it sounds like you're writing about the Christian God, and the Christian God seems to command/urge/exhort Christians to do good (I can provide verses if you like) doesn't that mean God is doing good? If you tell your children, "Don't drink and drive!" who are the Q to accuse you of contributing to DUIs rather than combatting them?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-09-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Good God? I don't fucking think so.
(17-09-2014 10:51 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Since it sounds like you're writing about the Christian God, and the Christian God seems to command/urge/exhort Christians to do good (I can provide verses if you like) doesn't that mean God is doing good?

What if he also tells them to do bad?

Numbers 31:1-18

31 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people.”

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them. 4 Send into battle a thousand men from each of the tribes of Israel.” 5 So twelve thousand men armed for battle, a thousand from each tribe, were supplied from the clans of Israel. 6 Moses sent them into battle, a thousand from each tribe, along with Phinehas son of Eleazar, the priest, who took with him articles from the sanctuary and the trumpets for signaling.

7 They fought against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and killed every man. 8 Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba—the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. 9 The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. 10 They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. 11 They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, 12 and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

13 Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.


(emphasis mine)
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