Poll: What do you think Christianity is primarily about?
This poll is closed.
Good News: Jesus Christ and Him crucified for our sins and raised for our justification 62.50% 5 62.50%
Good Advice: practical & moral guidance in order to live a good life here & now 37.50% 3 37.50%
Total 8 votes 100%
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Good News vs. Good Advice
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03-05-2012, 06:18 PM
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(03-05-2012 05:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 01:55 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Surely, somehow, someone who understands the history needs to communicate it to the world. This is not the sort of information that that should be hidden away and whispered between nerdy academics who have spent too many years pondering over ancient history. How are we going to get it out there? Bucky? Anyone else?


Exactly.

That's why I think a headline grabbing book, such as "Paulianity ... or why the religion Christians think they practice really isn't, and actually has nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth", could be as big a blockbuster as Dan Brown's books, and this one would be reality.

Well researched, well documented, well written, starting with an explanation of an explosive topic, such as the absence of "salvation" in Mark, then going back briefly to an examination of the origins of Yahweh, placed into it's historical context, and the real "non sin" basis of the Garden Myth, (chaos), then going back to a well ordered outline of the main steps of the development, (along with the obvious debunking), of where "original sin" came from, (and why), where the ideas of "salvation", "word of god", "son of god", etc etc all came from, all in one place, (for people who don't have the time to do the research, or know how to go about it) could be HUGE. At the very least it would spark an intense reaction from the fundies and academics, attempting to refute it, (which..once the cat is out of the bag, would be impossible). I was serious, when I suggested we collabarate.

The only reason the "man in the pew" remains there is ignorance. It's also one of Bart Ehrman's main contentions, (that if the man in the pew actually knew what was being taught in the mainline academic centers of Archaelology, and scriptural exegesis, (or even in the "liberal" seminaries .. Harvard, Princeton, maybe Union, and the Episcopal one in the East Coast of the US), they would not believe what they were hearing.

The book could also include a forword or afterword on how science has now refuted "Natural Law", and "First Cause" just to bug the fundie "Thomistic/Aristotelian" arguments "a priori".

The astounding ignorance displayed by "your" Cardinal Pell, (Sydney) in the recent debate there, ( http://www.atheistmedia.com/ ), (see the new Krauss / Dawkins video), is a perfect example of why the ole Buckminster is so very privileged to have seen the crap from the inside, (having met more than my share of these idiots "in red and purple", due to family connections). When I see the harm that was done, (re my "other project" ....as you know), I am SO lucky that it never touched me. But if they are all as easy to deal with, intellectually, as Pell is, they might just as well invite 3rd graders to the debates.


Dodgy



Problem is, most people want simple concepts to understand. To gain a real understanding of how manufactured and false Christianity is takes some effort. People need to read a book and actually think the concepts through. Average Joe Blow out there finds that hard.

But if you just give 'em the bottom line, it appears unscholarly, and you are just another guy shouting some opinion.


I think we just got to try to appeal to those who are willing to think. Problem is, if you are that sort of person, you're not likely to be in church every Sunday anyway.
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03-05-2012, 06:26 PM
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(03-05-2012 06:18 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 05:30 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Exactly.
That's why I think a headline grabbing book, such as "Paulianity ... or why the religion Christians think they practice really isn't, and actually has nothing to do with Jesus of Nazareth", could be as big a blockbuster as Dan Brown's books, and this one would be reality.
Well researched, well documented, well written, starting with an explanation of an explosive topic, such as the absence of "salvation" in Mark, then going back briefly to an examination of the origins of Yahweh, placed into it's historical context, and the real "non sin" basis of the Garden Myth, (chaos), then going back to a well ordered outline of the main steps of the development, (along with the obvious debunking), of where "original sin" came from, (and why), where the ideas of "salvation", "word of god", "son of god", etc etc all came from, all in one place, (for people who don't have the time to do the research, or know how to go about it) could be HUGE. At the very least it would spark an intense reaction from the fundies and academics, attempting to refute it, (which..once the cat is out of the bag, would be impossible). I was serious, when I suggested we collabarate.

The only reason the "man in the pew" remains there is ignorance. It's also one of Bart Ehrman's main contentions, (that if the man in the pew actually knew what was being taught in the mainline academic centers of Archaelology, and scriptural exegesis, (or even in the "liberal" seminaries .. Harvard, Princeton, maybe Union, and the Episcopal one in the East Coast of the US), they would not believe what they were hearing.

The book could also include a forword or afterword on how science has now refuted "Natural Law", and "First Cause" just to bug the fundie "Thomistic/Aristotelian" arguments "a priori".

The astounding ignorance displayed by "your" Cardinal Pell, (Sydney) in the recent debate there, ( http://www.atheistmedia.com/ ), (see the new Krauss / Dawkins video), is a perfect example of why the ole Buckminster is so very privileged to have seen the crap from the inside, (having met more than my share of these idiots "in red and purple", due to family connections). When I see the harm that was done, (re my "other project" ....as you know), I am SO lucky that it never touched me. But if they are all as easy to deal with, intellectually, as Pell is, they might just as well invite 3rd graders to the debates.

Dodgy


Problem is, most people want simple concepts to understand. To gain a real understanding of how manufactured and false Christianity is takes some effort. People need to read a book and actually think the concepts through. Average Joe Blow out there finds that hard.

But if you just give 'em the bottom line, it appears unscholarly, and you are just another guy shouting some opinion.


I think we just got to try to appeal to those who are willing to think. Problem is, if you are that sort of person, you're not likely to be in church every Sunday anyway.


Agree, and disagree. You underestimate the power of word of mouth and the media. Who would have thought Angels and Demons, or the other Brown books, could have possibly been a hit ? An "easy read" could be created, with easy to understand points. The nerdly stuff could be saved for Vol 2, or the debates. "Jesus never said shit about salvation" is not difficult, and attention grabbing. (Maybe that's a better title ?) Tongue

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03-05-2012, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 04-05-2012 06:21 PM by Mark Fulton.)
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(03-05-2012 06:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 06:18 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Problem is, most people want simple concepts to understand. To gain a real understanding of how manufactured and false Christianity is takes some effort. People need to read a book and actually think the concepts through. Average Joe Blow out there finds that hard.

But if you just give 'em the bottom line, it appears unscholarly, and you are just another guy shouting some opinion.


I think we just got to try to appeal to those who are willing to think. Problem is, if you are that sort of person, you're not likely to be in church every Sunday anyway.


Agree, and disagree. You underestimate the power of word of mouth and the media. Who would have thought Angels and Demons, or the other Brown books, could have possibly been a hit ? An "easy read" could be created, with easy to understand points. The nerdly stuff could be saved for Vol 2, or the debates. "Jesus never said shit about salvation" is not difficult, and attention grabbing. (Maybe that's a better title ?) Tongue



Ok....so how do we make it "entertaining?" That's why the davinci code sold...I think. (I haven't read it).

Hugh Schonfield managed to sell 6 million copies of "The Passover Plot" in the late 60's. It wasn't a novel, and it was a scholarly work. I don't quite know why it caught the public's eye (ie went "viral") as some of his other books are much better. But it proves it can be done.

Ok....I agree with you about "an easy read." I'm not sure whether my writing fits in to that category. I suspect not. I just don't know.

Have you got any ideas how you are going to harnass the media with your book?
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03-05-2012, 07:08 PM
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(03-05-2012 06:53 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(03-05-2012 06:26 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Agree, and disagree. You underestimate the power of word of mouth and the media. Who would have thought Angels and Demons, or the other Brown books, could have possibly been a hit ? An "easy read" could be created, with easy to understand points. The nerdly stuff could be saved for Vol 2, or the debates. "Jesus never said shit about salvation" is not difficult, and attention grabbing. (Maybe that's a better title ?) Tongue



Ok....so how do we make it "entertaining?" That's why the davinci code sold...I think. (I haven't read it).

Hugh Schonfield managed to sell 6 million copies of "The Passover Plot" in the late 60's. It wasn't a novel, and it was a scholarly work. I don't quite know why it caught the public's eye (ie went "viral") as some of his other books are much better. Bit it proves it can be done.

Ok....I agree with you about "an easy read." I'm not sure whether my writing fits in to that category. I suspect not. I just don't know.

Have you got any ideas how you are going to harnass the media with your book?


I do. Am legally constrained from talking about details until closer to pub. (They are afraid of a rip-offs/knock offs .. you know there is no definitive one on the subject yet). Basically it's the pubishers job, to market it. As my editor says, "a clean-cut kid from Cali is obviously not the devil". It will market itself. Tongue

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04-05-2012, 12:11 PM
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(03-05-2012 07:08 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I do. Am legally constrained from talking about details until closer to pub. (They are afraid of a rip-offs/knock offs .. you know there is no definitive one on the subject yet). Basically it's the pubishers job, to market it. As my editor says, "a clean-cut kid from Cali is obviously not the devil". It will market itself. Tongue
Do you have a working title?

I promise it will take the plains states like wildfire... if I have anything to do with it. I'll get my peeps on it! Smile



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I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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02-11-2012, 01:07 PM
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(02-05-2012 12:05 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Man, I thought Mark caught Comic Sans from Bucky there for a minute. Was gonna call the CDC...

My hypothesis is that the salvation paradigm of Paul evolved from the purification ritual needed to enter the Holy of Holies. And of course I'm a prophet, so I'm right and you're all wrong. Big Grin
(02-05-2012 02:39 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  Yep, I reckon Paul was probably gay.

I'm thinking, not.

(02-05-2012 02:39 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  It was highly unusual for any Jew to be celibate. He thought he had a "thorn in his side", which fits with guilt about his sexuality. Yep, love the theory about his habitual lust. Fits him to a tee. I can elaborate on this if anyone is interested.

Yep, he certainly regarded women as second class citizens. I don't think that was because he was gay, but because he was just a misogynist for other reasons. I can elaborate on this if anyone is interested.

I think it unlikely he was epileptic. We must remember the road to Damascus story is only in Acts, written about 100 years (maybe a little less) after Paul died. Paul himself never says anything about it in any of his letters (an impossible omission if it were true).

I think Paul was a cunning, manipulative, sneaky, lying, anxious little git. Yet I doubt he was psychotic in the sense that he suffered from full blown delusions or hallucinations. He was too functional for that, and his thoughts are too structured for him to have been psychotic. Anxious, obsessive compulsive and mildly narcissistic, but not schizophrenic.

Yes and no on that last bit. Gotta have some form of schizophrenia to be a prophet. It's a rule. Wink
I think Paul's purification came from Zoroastrianism, via Mithraism, as "sacrifice for atonement", (or "cosmic repair") is a more Hebrew idea. Also the High Priest purification, was needed only by the top guy, and Jeebus didn't need it. Personal purification is everywhere in Zoroastrianism.

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02-11-2012, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2012 02:52 PM by fstratzero.)
RE: Good News vs. Good Advice
(27-04-2012 11:50 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
  1. God created the world.

Which puts humans above nature not a part of nature, and causes their focus to be on themselves. How selfish this notion is.

(27-04-2012 11:50 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
  • God wants people to be good, nice, and fair to each other, as taught in the Bible and most world religions.

  • Yes but consider the means by which he accomplishes this. An infinitely evil act for every minor infraction upon his own laws, is completely unjust. Which also encourages psychological splitting.

    (27-04-2012 11:50 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
  • The central goal of life is to be happy and to feel good about oneself.

  • That is a common goal. But how can you feel good when you are a sinner?

    (27-04-2012 11:50 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
  • God does not need to be particularly involved in one's life except when needed to resolve a problem.

  • Indeed but do they actually resolve their conflicts in a method that is healthy?

    Or do they instead feel like their issue is resolved with prayer without talking it out, making compromises, and learning how to deal with others?

    I think prayer just puts off actual conflict resolution and causes psychological damage.

    (27-04-2012 11:50 AM)THEOtalk Wrote:  
  • Good people go to heaven when they die.

  • Again feeding splitting. If you look up narcissistic and borderline personality disorders religion fits the bill.

    It also makes notions of providing for future generations less important since going to heaven is the ultimate goal. The death of people seen as gods plan.

    For others heaven and hell is a form of revenge for people they do not like. Foster feelings of justice being served when nothing in reality was actually done. Merely it was a feeling subdued.

    To me the christian religion is poison to the mind. It encourages unhealthy behavior and many many people would be better off consulting a psychologists rather than their own imaginations.

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