Good deeds done dirt cheap
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15-12-2014, 12:25 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(12-12-2014 01:32 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Because it is irrelevant. You have already admitted that given the need you would place "love of god" ahead of a fellow human being. Even if no such circumstance could exist, that statement is damning.


Are you trying to backpeddle now? Your earlier statement seems to be a much more honest assessment of your position.


And that's totally off the point.

I don't retract that I love God above people. The first command is love God, the second, people. People are both trustworthy and untrustworthy and God is trustworthy. Abraham was tested in this very thing, supposing God could even raise Issac from the dead he was willing to slay his own child.

I'm not guilty of hate speech here because I'm an NT Christian and murder is forbidden to me along with many other OT things...

...We know atheists do not love God above people. Like Christians, they love some people more than others and at different times. The love for God above people provides an objective or absolute context to love if you will...

I think we've seen what you're all about and it's quite disgusting.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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15-12-2014, 03:38 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't retract that I love God above people. The first command is love God, the second, people. People are both trustworthy and untrustworthy and God is trustworthy. Abraham was tested in this very thing, supposing God could even raise Issac from the dead he was willing to slay his own child.
[Image: 57173339.jpg]

(Also, forgets that Isaac had to live with a father who agreed to sacrifice him.)

(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not guilty of hate speech here because I'm an NT Christian and murder is forbidden to me along with many other OT things...

The NT is meaningless without the OT. There is no such thing as a NT Christian - that's just wishful, cherry-picking, thinking.

(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...We know atheists do not love God above people. Like Christians, they love some people more than others and at different times. The love for God above people provides an objective or absolute context to love if you will...

One in which real beings are less valuable than imaginary beings. Dodgy

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-12-2014, 12:22 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(15-12-2014 12:25 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't retract that I love God above people. The first command is love God, the second, people. People are both trustworthy and untrustworthy and God is trustworthy. Abraham was tested in this very thing, supposing God could even raise Issac from the dead he was willing to slay his own child.

I'm not guilty of hate speech here because I'm an NT Christian and murder is forbidden to me along with many other OT things...

...We know atheists do not love God above people. Like Christians, they love some people more than others and at different times. The love for God above people provides an objective or absolute context to love if you will...

I think we've seen what you're all about and it's quite disgusting.

What is disgusting you? That I proselytize? If I really trust Jesus and believe in His promises and commands, should I not be true to myself?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-12-2014, 12:24 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(15-12-2014 03:38 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I don't retract that I love God above people. The first command is love God, the second, people. People are both trustworthy and untrustworthy and God is trustworthy. Abraham was tested in this very thing, supposing God could even raise Issac from the dead he was willing to slay his own child.
[Image: 57173339.jpg]

(Also, forgets that Isaac had to live with a father who agreed to sacrifice him.)

(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm not guilty of hate speech here because I'm an NT Christian and murder is forbidden to me along with many other OT things...

The NT is meaningless without the OT. There is no such thing as a NT Christian - that's just wishful, cherry-picking, thinking.

(15-12-2014 12:04 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  ...We know atheists do not love God above people. Like Christians, they love some people more than others and at different times. The love for God above people provides an objective or absolute context to love if you will...

One in which real beings are less valuable than imaginary beings. Dodgy

It isn't cherry picking to state emphatically that Noah and Adam weren't Jewish and don't have to follow Mosaic Law, just as NT believers need not.

I also wouldn't see real people are less valuable than God because God became a real person to die on the cross for man's redemption. God chose people over His Son, so your "dodgy" may apply to other theists but not classic Christianity.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-12-2014, 01:01 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 12:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It isn't cherry picking to state emphatically that Noah and Adam weren't Jewish and don't have to follow Mosaic Law, just as NT believers need not.

You dismiss the OT as if it no longer applies. But logically, in your belief system, your god wouldn't change morality. Therefore, the OT is just as relevant today as it was originally. In fact, Jesus said he came to fulfill, not to abolish the old law. You don't get to dismiss it because you find it inconvenient. Your god doesn't care what you find inconvenient.

(16-12-2014 12:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I also wouldn't see real people are less valuable than God because God became a real person to die on the cross for man's redemption. God chose people over His Son, so your "dodgy" may apply to other theists but not classic Christianity.

Completely side-stepped the issue. Don't you remember saying:

(12-12-2014 10:39 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm prepared to give up my neighbor's life to show love for God.

Consider

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-12-2014, 02:10 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 01:01 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 12:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It isn't cherry picking to state emphatically that Noah and Adam weren't Jewish and don't have to follow Mosaic Law, just as NT believers need not.

You dismiss the OT as if it no longer applies. But logically, in your belief system, your god wouldn't change morality. Therefore, the OT is just as relevant today as it was originally. In fact, Jesus said he came to fulfill, not to abolish the old law. You don't get to dismiss it because you find it inconvenient. Your god doesn't care what you find inconvenient.

(16-12-2014 12:24 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I also wouldn't see real people are less valuable than God because God became a real person to die on the cross for man's redemption. God chose people over His Son, so your "dodgy" may apply to other theists but not classic Christianity.

Completely side-stepped the issue. Don't you remember saying:

(12-12-2014 10:39 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm prepared to give up my neighbor's life to show love for God.

Consider

You are not only creating logical arguments here but interpreting the Bible. Your hermeneutics are not in evidence. It's very basic "Bible study" to understand that the Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people only.

I've heard the "fulfill" argument before. I'd ask for your definition of "fulfill". If I have fulfilled the requirements to pay your debt, why do you have to continue to pay on your debt? (You do not.)

I'm logically prepared to give up someone's life to show love for God. Why? Because I'd give up my own, too. And? So?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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16-12-2014, 02:13 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are not only creating logical arguments here but interpreting the Bible. Your hermeneutics are not in evidence. It's very basic "Bible study" to understand that the Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people only.

Seeing as jesus only loved the jews anyway I don't see why you would bring that up. If that is the case if you are not jewish than being a christian is redundant.

(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm logically prepared to give up someone's life to show love for God. Why? Because I'd give up my own, too. And? So?

Yeah but no one cares for that as your god is about as real as pikachu.

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16-12-2014, 02:26 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are not only creating logical arguments here but interpreting the Bible. Your hermeneutics are not in evidence. It's very basic "Bible study" to understand that the Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people only.

The point is irrelevant, but Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people originally, not only. To Christians, Christianity is the next step building upon the Jewish faith (or more specifically, what the Jewish faith was at the time Christianity started) because Jesus is supposedly the messiah from the Jewish faith. So Mosaic Law applies to Christians too. It's apologetics, not basic bible study, that attempts to dismiss the OT, but that doesn't mean they are correct or consistent.

(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've heard the "fulfill" argument before. I'd ask for your definition of "fulfill". If I have fulfilled the requirements to pay your debt, why do you have to continue to pay on your debt? (You do not.)

You're conveniently focusing on the wrong part and ignoring that he came "not to abolish the old law". In plain English, the old law - the OT - still stands.

(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm logically prepared to give up someone's life to show love for God. Why? Because I'd give up my own, too. And? So?

As I said, you value an imaginary being over real ones. I realize you believe that being is not imaginary, but since you have never seen your god, your god exists only in your imagination which you also imagine is true. That of course requires faith and so it's possible that you are wrong. However, there is no denying that your neighbor exists. So you'll sacrifice the sure thing to please the imaginary one without even considering how horrible it is that the imaginary one would want that from you anyway. Dodgy

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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16-12-2014, 03:10 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm logically prepared to give up someone's life to show love for God. Why? Because I'd give up my own, too. And? So?

Just out of curiosity - how is this different form any suicide bomber/shooter?
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16-12-2014, 03:37 PM
RE: Good deeds done dirt cheap
(16-12-2014 02:26 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You are not only creating logical arguments here but interpreting the Bible. Your hermeneutics are not in evidence. It's very basic "Bible study" to understand that the Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people only.

The point is irrelevant, but Mosaic Law was for the Jewish people originally, not only. To Christians, Christianity is the next step building upon the Jewish faith (or more specifically, what the Jewish faith was at the time Christianity started) because Jesus is supposedly the messiah from the Jewish faith. So Mosaic Law applies to Christians too. It's apologetics, not basic bible study, that attempts to dismiss the OT, but that doesn't mean they are correct or consistent.

(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I've heard the "fulfill" argument before. I'd ask for your definition of "fulfill". If I have fulfilled the requirements to pay your debt, why do you have to continue to pay on your debt? (You do not.)

You're conveniently focusing on the wrong part and ignoring that he came "not to abolish the old law". In plain English, the old law - the OT - still stands.

(16-12-2014 02:10 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I'm logically prepared to give up someone's life to show love for God. Why? Because I'd give up my own, too. And? So?

As I said, you value an imaginary being over real ones. I realize you believe that being is not imaginary, but since you have never seen your god, your god exists only in your imagination which you also imagine is true. That of course requires faith and so it's possible that you are wrong. However, there is no denying that your neighbor exists. So you'll sacrifice the sure thing to please the imaginary one without even considering how horrible it is that the imaginary one would want that from you anyway. Dodgy

Do you have more than a word "fulfill" that demonstrates the Mosaic Law is for today--from the scriptures? I can provide entire chapters citing otherwise. I'm open to understanding the Bible differently, but I'll need some scriptures from you to do so.

Thanks.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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