Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
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22-11-2015, 12:20 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2015 07:14 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
Let us all welcome our new friend DavidKingRichie whose name I have shortened to DKR for ease of reference. David has joined the forum with an apparent expressed interest in learning more about his faith, and sharing his knowledge with us. I enjoy the sharing of knowledge as we all know, so come on down DKR. Since I have issued the challenge, if you accept, I will make the first posit thereafter. Simply reply to post with "I accept." I look forward to exchanging perspectives, perhaps we will both learn a few things. Thumbsup

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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23-11-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
I accept
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23-11-2015, 12:38 PM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
Ok people you know the drill. This debate is only between goodwithoutgod and Davidkingrichie.

All other comments will be deleted without exception.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-11-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
(23-11-2015 12:35 PM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  I accept

Excellent. It is official.

My background is I grew up southern Baptist, father a minister, I was saved, ordained and worked in the sunday school of my father's church. Later my parents divorced, my mother became a Pentecostal Minister, and my father converted to Mormonism. I sought an education in theology to bolster and strengthen my faith, and the more I learned, the less I believed. I attended Saint Leo University, and completed three degrees with them, one of which is in religious studies, with specialization in Christianity. I went from christian, to spiritual, to agnostic, to atheist. I look forward to exchanging perspectives.

Please reply with your background in religion. I am logging off to attend a couple meetings, and will return this evening. Feel free to post your background, and your perspective religious belief.

My opening assertion is no one who ever wrote of jesus knew him, thus it is all fabricated hearsay.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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23-11-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
I was and I still am a pentecostal. I've experienced the power of God in ways you won't believe/imagine. My quest into the spiritual began after encountering a spirit being. As a result of that encounter,i started having seizures until the age of 16 when I began attending a new pentecostal church in South Africa. My personal relationship with the spiritual is beyond books of theology and schools of thought. I've developed deep relationship with christ through the feeling of his power in my life.
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23-11-2015, 01:17 PM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
Willhopp said on my profile that "seizures are just seizures"...wow sherlock! I guess I didn't know that. What I was driving at is this - I had seizures on a regular basis. This was the norm. It happened after I saw a spiritual being (you may call it a hallucination of some kind. Bear in mind that I was 12,well fed,and I was in the sitting room with my siblings when this happened. The seizure didn't take place immediately,it only happened when I wanted to tap my sister to ask her if she saw what I saw.) like I said earlier, this seizures for some reason continued till I was 16. It stopped after I went to a church. This evidence is good for me and incontrovertible.
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23-11-2015, 01:49 PM
Brick RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
(23-11-2015 01:17 PM)davidkingrichie Wrote:  Willhopp said on my profile that "seizures are just seizures"...wow sherlock! I guess I didn't know that. What I was driving at is this - I had seizures on a regular basis. This was the norm. It happened after I saw a spiritual being (you may call it a hallucination of some kind. Bear in mind that I was 12,well fed,and I was in the sitting room with my siblings when this happened. The seizure didn't take place immediately,it only happened when I wanted to tap my sister to ask her if she saw what I saw.) like I said earlier, this seizures for some reason continued till I was 16. It stopped after I went to a church. This evidence is good for me and incontrovertible.

Admin note: Just a little FYI. This debate is between YOU AND GOODWITHOUTGOD ONLY.

If you want to respond to willhop, you need to reply to him in the thread.

If you want goodwithoutgod to reply for Willhop...well it's kinda presumptuous but carry on.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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23-11-2015, 03:44 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2015 06:04 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
DKR,

First may I say, I fully intend to remain civil throughout this debate, unless you choose to do otherwise. While I am fluent in sarcasm, it tends to close down people’s willingness to truly consider the others point.

Let us begin.

Faith based on a personal experience is more common than you think. The challenge is separating correlation from causation. I can present analogies to you all day explaining the difference between correlation and causation in regards to a “personal experience,” but since you were forthright by sharing your personal experiences with me, I will do likewise.

I was a very sickly child, which was not helped by my parents application of prayer and herbal remedies in an attempt to cure actual medical problems. At nine years old, I had contracted double pneumonia and all the prayer circles around my bed, garlic taped to my chest, herbal teas, and reading of Scripture had no effect. I told my mother that I saw Jesus Christ standing over my bed smiling down upon me. I was soon literally on my deathbed and had become unresponsive; my eyes were sunken, my lips blue when my mother finally took me to the emergency room. I was immediately admitted and remained in the hospital for seven days. Big surprise; antibiotics and medical science fixed what prayer and herbs could not.

Later as a devout Christian family, my wife and I was dealing with the fact that both of our daughters had been diagnosed with a terminal disease called Infantile Tay-Sachs. We prayed, we cried, we begged… Multiple denominational religious leaders came to our home and prayed with us, my mother opened her church and invited over 30 ministers, preachers, and pastors to anoint my daughters with prayers. Angelica died two weeks later, and Diamond died three months later. This, of course, rocked my faith, but it did not make me turn from God. Instead it made me seek out knowledge and education to bolster and strengthen my faith….alas, the opposite happened, the more I learned, the less I believed.

Let’s review the power of prayer in accordance with Scripture:

"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." (Matthew 7:7)

"Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:19)

"And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive." (Matthew 21:22)

"Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them." (Mark 11:24)

Moving forward..so, you had two personal experiences, one in which you feel you encountered a spiritual being and another where the seizures you were experiencing ceased upon entering a new church. Again, I will not bother to discuss the difference between correlation and causation. Neither will I say what you did or did not experience as I was not there and in your mind. Your “personal experience” was real to you whether it was actually real or not, just as mine was. My mother tells the story of me seeing Jesus Christ to this day in her sermons. She is currently in South Africa preaching the gospel at revivals. I have no memory of seeing Jesus Christ, but now as an adult applying reason and logic, and my understanding of how the mind works, I would contribute my hallucination due to severe medical sickness, and the 24/7 immersion in Christianity. On the wall at the foot of my bed was a huge picture of Jesus Christ, so the first thing I saw when I woke up was JC smiling down at me, and the last thing I saw before falling asleep was JC smiling down upon me...familiar with the concept of mental imprinting? I have also learned that if one believes something hard enough, and looks for it long enough, one will find it, whether it really exists or not.

I am not a psychologist, psychiatrist, or a neurologist, so I cannot with any degree of validity explain why you had the personal experience that you had. It is virtually impossible to disprove a personal experience as it is based on feelings, chemical responses, psychological balance, and interpretation. How about we take your two personal experiences and my two personal experiences, and place them into a box for the moment. Let’s put that box on the shelf, as the contents are impossible to analyze. Let us shift our attention and discussion to more tangible things.

To start; outside of your personal experience, why do you have faith?

In kind, I will state that outside of my personal experience, I do not have faith because faith is based on the belief of something without evidence. After a long, exhaustive study of the Christian religion, its basis, the formation of its holy book, the complete lack of evidence to corroborate any of the major stories of the book, the lack of a single person who wrote of Jesus who actually knew him, thus it is all based on stories (hearsay), I have come to the position of anti-faith. I am confident in my lack of faith, and can validate, articulate, and substantiate it to great detail.

I am glad you agreed to enter discourse together over this very important subject, and look forward to sharing information.

R/
GWG

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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01-12-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
Girl_nails

Consider

Dodgy

....................

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-12-2015, 09:09 AM
RE: Goodwithoutgod challenges Davidkingrichie to a civil debate
Well it appears that yet again, a theist comes running into our little home, bloviating about their faith, and when challenged, they tuck their tail and run.

You know DKR, I was hoping to teach you a few things about life, theology, and logic, but it seems, yet again, all talk no walk is the modus operandi for theists I challenge. Perhaps someday I will find one that can stand toe to toe with me and enter intellectual debate....I won't hold my breath though.

next.....

Sadly, Mods I think it is time to call it a win by default...pity. Another one bites the dust..

sigh

Flex

Evil_monster

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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