Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
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20-12-2014, 12:02 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 11:39 PM)Gordon Wrote:  So, you flew off the handle for that statement. Of all the shit I say in here, you fly off the handle over that.

Yeah, that ain't flying off the handle. I'm pretty sure I don't fly off the handle often. ... I mean given that it takes viagra or cialis a half hour or so to even have a handle to fly off of..

(19-12-2014 11:39 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You know what...I don't even want to understand it. Be who you are.

Isn't that like the First Commandment of Veridicanism?

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-12-2014, 12:14 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 12:02 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yeah, that ain't flying off the handle. I'm pretty sure I don't fly off the handle often. ... I mean given that it takes viagra or cialis a half hour or so to even have a handle to fly off of..

That's one of those comments you open our mouth to say something and then can't think of anything accept..."Good point."


GirlyMan Wrote:
Quote:You know what...I don't even want to understand it. Be who you are.

Isn't that like the First Commandment of Veridicanism?

No. Believe in Jesus Christ would be it, if it had commandments.
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20-12-2014, 12:16 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 11:57 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 12:24 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Oops.
See 5:49




Consider

Watching that, I was surprised that she wasn't using her top posh accent. I thought I was seeing Michael Caine in drag!

I'd not noticed the similarity before.

[Image: 01+Michael+Caine+Maggie+Smith.jpg]

SIR Michael Caine. Tongue

I do believe you may have something.

https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/eCQLPN...958e47362f

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-12-2014, 12:19 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 12:02 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 11:39 PM)Gordon Wrote:  You know what...I don't even want to understand it. Be who you are.

Isn't that like the First Commandment of Veridicanism?

No.

The fuck good is it then if it can't even get first principles right.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-12-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
GirlyMan Wrote:Isn't that like the First Commandment of Veridicanism?

No. Believe in Jesus Christ would be it, if it had commandments.

I been my own personal Lord and Savior for almost as long as you been alive. I can guarantee that you are not the first incarnation of the second coming of The Christ. I beat you to it by 20 years. Drinking Beverage

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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20-12-2014, 12:46 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 11:42 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 11:41 PM)Gordon Wrote:  y'all need to get more fun out of life. Sad

Watching your train wreck has its upside.

Yes.

It's light entertainment.

He's a fine example of a full package of nearly everything that is bad about religion...

narcissism, intellectual laziness, arrogance, arguments expressed using logical fallacies, and....most of all....ignorance of any real history.

It's fun reading him because he makes everyone else look so good.

Gordon thinks he is interesting, but the reality is he's just a punching bag we can all use to express our distaste for everything he represents.
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20-12-2014, 01:46 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 05:37 PM)Airportkid Wrote:  Back at Post #91 I referenced "the OP" throughout, careless of the fact that "the OP", Dark Phoenix, was NOT to whom my "the OP" referred. "The OP" I meant was Gordon, the OP of an odious but well visited thread that inspired Mr. Phoenix to create THIS thread.

Editing is apparently disabled after some length of time, so I'm unable to emend Post #91 directly. I therefore make this public apology to Dark Phoenix for being so bone-headedly careless.

I appreciate you going to all the effort. Thank you.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-12-2014, 02:30 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  That's fair. So, don't ask me to jump through a bunch of hoops for you. Drinking Beverage

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  No, I agree with you: the god of traditional Christianity (or Islam or Judaism) is not a possibility. There is a positive argument for its non-existence, in my opinion. But, "the Father" that Jesus speaks of in the Gospels of the NT and the Gospel of Thomas, is not the god of traditional Christianity--just so you know. No

Well, I suppose that's progress of a kind. If you don't mind, what are the major differences between the god you believe in, and the traditional concept?

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  That's fair. The God I'm speaking to is the only God that exists (assuming I'm actually speaking to God). There can't be multiple gods. There can be multiple spirit guides, but not Gods. Logically, if God exists, it has to be a single entity. Now, having said that, what I am speaking to is actually not the God, but a modality of Him. Jesus called that modality the Holy Spirit, or more precisely, the Comforter.

Okay. Why do you say no other gods can exist? Isn't it possible that you just happen to be conversing with one of many? What do you mean when you say "spirit guide" and how is that different from a god?

I think you can understand why I, and probably many others, are unlikely to believe you. We are familiar with Muslims who claim their mystical experience of Allah makes him the only god, and that is just one other religious example. I think you can follow me in concluding that at least one of you is wrong. I think you can understand why trust is not enough in this situation.

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  God, in his totality, is far too great for us to conceive of. The idea that I could "talk" with the creator and sustainer of quarks and galaxies is, well, silly. I talk with the Holy Spirit, but the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all "God." My graphical user interface for God, if you will, is the Holy Spirit.

Why would it be silly? I can conceive of any god, even an infinite one, and I am not even sure if an infinite is possible. I can picture it. In what way is god beyond human conception?

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  And how do I know it's not just me? Often, when I am in communication, I get answers that I don't like. I also get encouragements that I don't think I deserve. Sometimes, I get revelation knowledge that just pops in there as soon as I ask the question, and I had never thought of it before. Over the years, I've come to recognize that "voice."

It's like there's me (my ego), and then there's the silent part of my mind that seems to watch and listen to me think (my eternal consciousness or soul), and then there is that "other" that I just described. And I can tell the difference.

And that's it. But here we're talking about aspects of consciousness that can't be objectified. They are subjective experiences, as is all of consciousness.

I think everyone has something like an internal dialogue. I just don't happen to attribute any of it to the supernatural. I have a part of me which knows and follows important rules and is responsible. I have another part which is mostly interested in chaos, emotion, and pleasure. I have practical conversations with the different parts of my mind when, say, the responsible bit reminds the beast not to eat too many cookies or drink too much. I don't think this means I am talking to an actual being inside my head. That seems like a crazy conclusion.

I am hoping I am not alone in this kind of self conversing, otherwise someone will have to break the sad news to me that I am actually insane.

The point is that it is possible for me to "give" myself information that at least one part of me doesn't like or want to hear. It is also possible, as I have demonstrated, for me to categorize and differentiate between this internal voices. I don't see how my ability to do that would prove a divine message. These internal thoughts don't come with return address. Do yours? How can you be certain to whom you speak?

Is it your belief that god speaks to everyone?

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  No, no, no. Among people who talk to God, it's the same experience. God loves all the religions. Past ones, present ones, and the ones to come. He does. He wants everyone to have their own religion seeking after the Son. You would be amazed at the near infinite religions Jesus Christ could inspire. There's only about 30,000 denominations. There should be a billion. He loves the conflict, and He loves the arguing. It's the sound of His little lives buzzing around, and it's all about Him.

God is nothing if not a glory hound.

[Image: worship_slaves.gif]

I don't think we are defining "same experience" in the same way. When one culture experiences Jesus and another Vishnu, that is what I call a different mystical experience. I think if there really were only one god, that shouldn't be happening. I think you have to go out of your way to ignore the diversity of religions with different goals, many of which are not to "seek after his son". I would be more likely to believe if Christ inspired one consistent set of principles which developed independently all over the world. That would seem consistent and logical to me. The diversity of Christianity doesn't inspire me, it is just anecdotal evidence that fallible human beings are involved.

Honestly, given the morality and attitude of this god you are describing, I would withhold worship even if I was convinced he existed. He wouldn't deserve it.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-12-2014, 02:50 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 04:39 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I want to focus on your Ph.D. in Biblical Studies (that you are simultaneously studying along with "surgery" and astrophysics--and spending copious amounts of time on here). Why would you study something that never happened?

Gordon, this is a really flawed question. Don't you think we should be well versed in something that we reject? Would you really take a non-believer seriously if they hadn't read the Bible enough to make an informed decision? I find it very difficult to respect believers who haven't at least done that.

This kind of a question seems to me like an only slightly veiled version of "Why don't you just shut up?" We all have a voice and there isn't a point of view that ought to pretend there isn't a disagreement.

(19-12-2014 04:08 PM)Gordon Wrote:  And when atheists say this (because they're the only ones who do), that Jesus of Nazareth never existed, I always wonder where they think the first Christians came from. Cuz there had to be some. Because there really were persecutions; the Roman Empire did become the Holy Roman Empire.

I mean, do you think the very first Christians were in a house somewhere and came up with an elaborate plot to start a false cult--and they were that successful? They met some unsuspecting people, told them the big fable, and those people believed it? And ultimately people were willing to die for it?

I don't think it matters who claims something for it to be true. Besides, I don't expect Christians to even go near this one with a ten foot pole. They have a lot riding on Jesus and thus it wouldn't be to their advantage to promote his non-existence.

Moses evidently did not exist either, but there are still Jews. In fact, they were the ones who determined that in the first place. Moses is more airtight case, but I think you see the point. An appeal to the existence of Christians doesn't make Jesus real if he never lived.

(19-12-2014 04:39 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Tell me you think he was a liar and a cheat, but don't tell me he didn't exist, because that just sounds desperate, like you need to be an atheist rather than simply don't believe in God.

I think you have some prejudice against Atheists that really needs to go. This sentence doesn't make sense because not believing in god is the definition of Atheism. I don't think you will find any of us claiming we know your beliefs better than you do. We won't be found adjusting your definitions for our own purposes. Have the courtesy to abstain from the same sort of rudeness. If you won't take us as we are, why should we take an interest in what you say?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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20-12-2014, 03:03 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 03:38 AM by Dark Phoenix.)
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(19-12-2014 06:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Oh, got it. So all this time we always thought there was persecution, but in 2014 an atheist/christian writes a book and, well, that's it. It never happened. And the whole world has revolved for 2000 years around the life and death of Jesus Christ, but in 2014 the atheists say he never existed, so well, there goes that.

You know, truth is I have no fucking clue. Truth is, you guys have no fucking clue and neither does someone with a horrid yeast infection for a name (Candida Moss, seriously?). We didn't live then. We don't know.

I don't think it is much of a stretch, if any at all, to point out that people might have a lot riding on a lie. I don't think the popularity of a thing makes it more likely to be true or false. Just as one example, a great many explorers wasted years looking for a fountain of eternal youth. It didn't exist, but it was a legendary story that a lot of people took seriously and made decisions based on.

I think we might run into trouble if we start claiming that not being around when something happens is the only way to know what happened. Sure, it might be the only way to clear up all the details, but there are still indications or clues from the past.

(19-12-2014 06:22 PM)Gordon Wrote:  What I do know is that we have the Gospel record. That's what exists today. Either Jesus lived and it was a record of his life and death and teachings, or the guy who made it all up and wrote it down existed. Either way, we learn about the concept of the Son of God, and that is how we get to God.

We didn't live back then; we didn't see the miracles; we didn't hear the teachings. What we have, what anyone has had for 1970 some odd years is the Gospel record. If your eyes aren't opened when you read it, then maybe you were never created to be saved. Like Jesus said, if the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness.

I personally don't think it is a malicious or even intentional fabrication. I think the authors were genuine Christian believers. Since the gospels were written well after Christ was supposed to have lived, I think it likely that they are a kind of faith promoting attempted biography, in the same way that the five books of Moses are. They likely wrote down what was left of the original details after several generations of oral storytelling.

I would say that appealing to our lack of witnessing the miracles and teachings isn't a benefit to your point of view. It is hard enough to demonstrate a miracle, in fact so far impossible, so how is a great passing a time supposed to help our clarity?

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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