Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
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20-12-2014, 09:25 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 03:23 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(19-12-2014 10:58 PM)Gordon Wrote:  I'm sorry. For what? To say that Jesus existed. No credible scholar holds the position that Jesus didn't exist. Only atheists do that. And I've always found that very interesting. Because it's not necessary. If God doesn't exist, Jesus is nothing. Nothing. But it's very very important to atheists today that Jesus never existed. It's even more important to them than God not existing.

I used to think it was a gay thing. Gays are outcast--or used to be--from the Christian Church, but Jesus never preached against homosexuality. Paul did, but no one claims Paul didn't exist.

So, there's something going on that I'm not getting. Something satanic is in the air. I'm just not sure what it is. For some reason, the modern atheist must make the case that Jesus never existed. Very strange. The motivation just doesn't jive.

You are not the first Theist I have talked to who was convinced that Atheists approach their world view out of desire. For those of us who care about objectivity, which I think is the majority of Atheists, we try to put our desires aside and weigh evidence. We don't just go around claiming that anyone who says something we don't agree with never existed.

Gordon, it doesn't matter what we want. It matters what's true. I really believe that is important. I think that when you claim that Atheists have an agenda it is just another reason you invent not to take us seriously. If you don't take what we say into account when forming your opinions about who we are, I don't see how we can have a discussion. Your beliefs cannot be immune to change if you want to be accurate. I think you would be hard pressed to find a single one of us who wouldn't change our minds if we were presented with historical evidence that Jesus lived.

Can anyone back me up on this? Wouldn't we change our minds?

I've heard Christianity referred to as a beautiful lie. The cherry picked parts with hippy love Jesus, not burn in hell Jesus.

But yeah, it would be nice to get a pass on our mortality as long as the conditions aren't too onerous, but they are.....

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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20-12-2014, 10:10 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 03:23 AM)‘Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I think you would be hard pressed to find a single one of us who wouldn't change our minds if we were presented with historical evidence that Jesus lived.

Can anyone back me up on this? Wouldn't we change our minds?

Yes and I’ll take it a step further.

I have no presupposition of reality, the universe continues to prove itself to be more complex and surprising than our feeble minds can imagine. We observe and take note and if tomorrow we find incontrovertible evidence that a three-legged goat shit the universe out of it’s ass then I’ll go with that but until then I’ll stick with what can be proven.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-12-2014, 10:18 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 10:10 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 03:23 AM)‘Dark Phoenix Wrote:  I think you would be hard pressed to find a single one of us who wouldn't change our minds if we were presented with historical evidence that Jesus lived.

Can anyone back me up on this? Wouldn't we change our minds?

Yes and I’ll take it a step further.

I have no presupposition of reality, the universe continues to prove itself to be more complex and surprising than our feeble minds can imagine. We observe and take note and if tomorrow we find incontrovertible evidence that a three-legged goat shit the universe out of it’s ass then I’ll go with that but until then I’ll stick with what can be proven.





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20-12-2014, 10:35 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 10:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 10:10 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Yes and I’ll take it a step further.

I have no presupposition of reality, the universe continues to prove itself to be more complex and surprising than our feeble minds can imagine. We observe and take note and if tomorrow we find incontrovertible evidence that a three-legged goat shit the universe out of it’s ass then I’ll go with that but until then I’ll stick with what can be proven.





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Yup, now all we need to do is find the smoking gun or Bic lighter. Tongue

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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20-12-2014, 10:56 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 12:25 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 12:14 AM)Gordon Wrote:  No. Believe in Jesus Christ would be it, if it had commandments.

I been my own personal Lord and Savior for almost as long as you been alive. I can guarantee that you are not the first incarnation of the second coming of The Christ. I beat you to it by 20 years. Drinking Beverage

I realize it's important for you assholes to insist that I am claiming to be Jesus Christ, or that I am claiming to be the second coming of Christ. For the record I am not. I am not claiming it, nor do I believe it.

I follow Jesus Christ, same as you should.
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20-12-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 10:56 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 12:25 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I been my own personal Lord and Savior for almost as long as you been alive. I can guarantee that you are not the first incarnation of the second coming of The Christ. I beat you to it by 20 years. Drinking Beverage

I realize it's important for you assholes to insist that I am claiming to be Jesus Christ, or that I am claiming to be the second coming of Christ. For the record I am not. I am not claiming it, nor do I believe it.

I follow Jesus Christ, same as you should.

Could you follow him out of here please?

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF

We're all mad here. The Cheshire Cat
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20-12-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
Okay, Dark Phoenix, you said your bit, and I said my bit, and you responded with your counter-bits. And I appreciate you being civil about it. You realize, I can't possibly re-respond to all of that, or I won't have any time to do anything else in the day--like work on Veridican theology. But I did read what you posted. Again, thanks for the civility.

Ed
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20-12-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 06:28 AM)Nurse Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 06:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  If it's the paradise conjured by the limited imaginations of goat herders then I'll pass Drinking Beverage

Depends. I like the What Dreams May Come version. If only.

Well, it's funny you should mention that. No...wait, I'm going to start a new thread on this. Thanks for the inspiration. Thumbsup
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20-12-2014, 11:21 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 10:56 AM)Gordon Wrote:  I realize it's important for you assholes to insist that I am claiming to be Jesus Christ, or that I am claiming to be the second coming of Christ. For the record I am not. I am not claiming it, nor do I believe it.
Well you've got a funny way of not claiming it Rolleyes Look dude, if every word that comes outta your mouth doesn't mean what other people think it means then you have a communication problem.

Quote:I follow Jesus Christ, same as you should.

You realise that when you say "Jesus Christ" I hear "The Emptiness". When you say "thank you Jesus" it's the same to me as if you were thanking the vacuum of outer space? Following Jesus is following a chimera, a non-entity. Nothingness. The prophets of your God are listening to their own mad delusions. Following Jesus is following what someone else says is Jesus, and *that* someone else got their Jesus either from their own imagination or from another follower. The blind leading the blind.

If your Jesus is not in your imagination, I eagerly await your demonstration of the same Drinking Beverage After all it's hardly fair to tell me I should follow Jesus if I can't detect your boy.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-12-2014, 11:30 AM (This post was last modified: 20-12-2014 11:34 AM by Gordon.)
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(20-12-2014 08:31 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(20-12-2014 06:15 AM)morondog Wrote:  If it's the paradise conjured by the limited imaginations of goat herders then I'll pass Drinking Beverage

To be fair, even I wouldn't consider it 'paradise' unless there was an option to eventually opt-out and simply cease to be. On an infinite timeline, eventually I would simply run out of things to do and be curious about. It might take a really long time, but it would eventually happen, and once it does I think that continued existence (especially an eternal one) would turn into torture.

Even the best party in the universe becomes a prison if you lack the option to leave. Drinking Beverage

I want to start a new thread and get out of this one, so I will pick this comment as the last word I'm going to have in here.

You are right about paradise that way. You do realize every heaven is different, and every heaven has to be self-created in the astral realm, or it would not be heaven. It couldn't be. Which is why we are here to learn, be transformed, and grow. Which also leads into theodicy and why there is suffering. But I won't go there now.

You hit the nail on the head when you said you'd want an option to blink out of existence, or else it could end up a torture, and it would. I honestly believe that kind of torture is one of the types of hell that God has within Him.

I also think that if all goes well, we are on a path to non-existence. We are on a path to where our heavens become greater and greater until we are simply diffused into the totality of God by choice. And of course, at that point we don't exist as a separate modality any longer.

But for the ones God really hates, there is a pleasure paradise waiting for them, I'm sure of it, and it has only one caveat: it never ends. The desire for pleasure ends, but the paradise of pleasure never does.

Hasta Luego.
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