Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
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18-12-2014, 08:42 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 12:16 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(18-12-2014 07:58 AM)Gordon Wrote:  I don't think you want the answer I was given last night. I really would rather leave this alone. Confused

Last night as I was praying asking God to give me some sign as to wether I should follow Veridacanism a blinding light nearly knocked me to the ground, I certainly didn't expect that. Then a voice, no not a true voice, a searing thought-like voice spoke to me slowly and gave me an unmistakable answer. I didnt know how long I was "out" during the episode but when I checked the time more than an hour had passed, very disorienting, but I got my answer.

You would really be surprised what the voice revealed to me Gordon, stunning even.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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18-12-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(18-12-2014 07:58 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Hey Mr. Woof. It's my opinion that once someone tells someone else online to kill themselves, as Whiskey did, there is no sense in addressing them. They are in fact the worst kind of scum humanity produces. They may not be out murdering people, but they're trying to get people to murder themselves, and that's almost sicker because it's more cowardly and weak.

What's hypocritical about this comment is that you are clearly outspoken against homosexuality. LGBT teens have comparatively higher suicide rates because of sexual discrimination from political and religious figures, among others. Studies have also shown that acceptance, or neutrality, directly contributes to a lowered suicide rate. You probably already know this.

You are choosing to be part of that problem. You may not be out murdering people, but you're contributing to people murdering themselves. Cowardly and weak indeed. Good job, buddy. Fortunately you've found a way to spin this; I'm sure god is explaining himself to you right now.

I'd post some of your fantastically homophobic comments from your old Egor account, but, for some reason, you had it deleted.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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18-12-2014, 08:47 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(18-12-2014 08:35 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 08:26 AM)Chas Wrote:  Oh, you're such a tease. Girl_nails

Are you concerned for our delicate sensibilities?

The answer doesn't change anything. It won't change you. It won't prove anything, and it doesn't turn the massacre of 145 school kids in Pakistan into a warm fuzzie.

Lemme guess, you prophetized it beforehand but are just now mentioning it?
It was necessary because "mysterious ways"?
Those savages believe in the wrong sky daddy?
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18-12-2014, 09:53 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(17-12-2014 09:56 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Though I find your tangential writing nearly impossible to follow, I did pick this bit out of it; And it deserves a response, because I had a response from God about this very thing just yesterday while I was jogging:

You managed to blunder your way to the question of god's intentions when it comes to two thousand years of Christian domination of the figure Jesus Christ, but you don't posses the moral courage to follow that reasoning to its destination, Atheism.

The idea is that the Christian Church has taken Jesus Christ and hidden him from humanity. For at least 1700 years, the Church has dictated how Jesus will be interpreted from the Gospels, and it has nullified most of his teachings by adding Judaism and some selected letters of early Christians into the Canon that are then equal to what is recorded in the Gospels.

What we end up with, in the extreme, is Mary (Jesus' Mother) and the teachings of St. Paul being at least as important as Jesus Christ, himself. We also end up with an institution that produces at least as many atheists as it does converts.

When one does what I have done and removes the concept of Jesus Christ from the confines of the Christian religion by selecting only the Gospels from the Canon and discarding all the rest on the grounds of it either being Judaism or unintended letters, the Savior that emerges brings an heretical level of freedom and spirituality to the individual. So much so that if we were to follow "only" Jesus Christ, it would bring down all the governments of the world and the institution of the Church as well.

So, why then did God allow that? If He is in control, how could he have let Christ be confined to a monstrance? This then is the message I have received.

[Image: monstrance.jpg]

It was because of the persecution of early Christians. If God had not shelved the mission of Christ for a while, it would have disappeared off the earth altogether. Every Christian would have been wiped out. For those early one's, they had it in their head that the completion of their spiritual experience was to die for Christ. And the worse the death the better the experience!

The rebuttal to this is an obvious one: Why didn't God simply stop the persecution? The answer is that the mission of Christ would have died without it. Without the persecution, it would have been a small cult that ran its course like so many others before it.

And why then should God play these kinds of games? I don’t know. He just seems to do things through evolution rather than popping the desired reality into existence. The phases of Christ from the rise of Ancient Egypt, to the Greek Philosophers, to the Ancient Israelites, to the incarnation of Christ in Jesus, to the Nuclear Age of mankind, is an evolutionary process.

Perhaps evolution is an inescapable attribute of God, or perhaps it’s a game He likes to play. Either way, the Church was a preserving measure during a time when human beings were evolving into a capacity for Christ.

Atheism, as you correctly point out, is the modern reaction to the Christian Church. It is in fact the agent that will dissolve the Church. Even now it is doing that, but it will give way to the Second Coming of Christ, which Veridicanism is part of.

[Image: takeabow.gif]

I don't think you follow me on the original point of that sentence you quoted. If it is possible to make a judgement of divine intentions and/or character using deductions like this, it is possible to do it on a much larger scale. If one may ask who god permits a historical happenstance, one may ask further why god allows unnecessary evil, or why he chooses to execute the details of his plan in an inefficient and overly difficult way. He goes to great lengths to sacrifice his son when it might have been both simpler and more humane to practice forgiveness and understanding, especially given his direct responsibility for the human nature to which he objects.

Even if we take the ugly road of blaming humanity for their own nature through Adam's fall, god is still to blame for manufacturing the ridiculous and impossible circumstances that led to it. It should have come as no surprise to god that placing a curious human being, who he designed to be curious and exploratory, near a tree of forbidden fruit was a stupid idea.

It is not technically true that this line of thought leads directly to Atheism, since one may select another religion, but it makes the stupidity of Christianity very clear indeed. At the very least it entails the rejection of that doctrine.

I am not impressed with the content of your jogging revelation. God has apparently revealed his own incompetence and failure for the sake of an explanation? Did those troublesome human beings use their will to ruin his plans? Oh dear. We are a difficult lot. It's not as it omnipotence or other omni-abilities could have helped or anything. I am sure he will figure out a way around all that.

I already considered your powers of revelation fraudulent and dishonest, but you make it easier for me by claiming common cause with the likes of Joseph Smith Jr. and Mohammad. They could reportedly produce revelation both on demand and as it happened to suit their temporal needs and base desires. What convenience! The prophetic imagination may revel in the friendly resonance between the divinely revealed will and their own, but even the credulous can invent a more likely natural explanation.

To prove my indictment groundless, demonstrate your correctness. Provide for us, if you can, the simple mechanism by which you distinguish the divine from the fallibility of your own person. Provide for us an additional mechanism by which you identify and verify the supposed deity who so continuously seeks to occupy your thoughts. Failing a convincing explanation of these things is a simple admission that you have no means of determining human error in this process.

It is not my view, and I have never said, that Atheism is a reaction. I do not think it can or ought to be reduced to this one very inept generalization. Atheism is no more a reaction to the stupidity and immorality of Christianity than say religious faith is to the fear of death. The truth of these anecdotal pieces of information is insufficient to accurately represent the core of each concept. Atheism and faith stand ultimately on their individual merits, while dismissing them as "reactions" is at best lazy. No one with even a dictionary based rudimentary understanding of the term Atheism would or should take an education on the subject from you. Even if we had authorities, you fall short of the title.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-12-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(17-12-2014 11:40 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Yeah, just walk away. You have nothing to add. God talks to me. He'd talk to you too, but you're too stupid to listen. Mental breakdown or not, in response to my prayer, he healed my dog's ear last night, and I love my dog, so I don't give a shit what you think about my "special view of the world."

And to anyone reading. Yes, we have an appointment at the vet this afternoon. But at this time there doesn't seem to be any need for it at all. Nevertheless, God gave us antibiotics and pain medicine, too, even if only prophylactically. And if the vet prescribes those things, I'm not going to throw those miracles back in God's face. But at 3 AM, he answered my prayer for the acute pain my dog was experiencing.

So, you can imagine how little of a fuck I give about anyone's "opinion" of the miracles I experience from God.

You are obviously incapable of a single post that isn't gorged with arrogance. You can't even follow most of what I write and you call him stupid? You are the only one who has demonstrated that for all of us to see.

You are also a liar, since we have already established that you care what we think of your "special view of the world". If you didn't care, you wouldn't post here.

Take a lesson from David Hume when it comes to miracle healing. Which is the lesser miracle, that your dog was healed by supernatural magic powers, or that there is some simple natural explanation? If you choose to believe the greater miracle, you are not being reasonable. Choosing a supernatural explanation instead of merely an improbable one is an extremely important distinction since claims so unbelievably extraordinary demand evidence of the same caliber before they can be believed by sensible people.

If you really believe the inventions of Science and technology are from god, you are a historical and scientific ignoramus. All these advances of modern science have been in the teeth of religions which have always championed supernatural explanations and adherence to tradition over progress. God would have you believing in things like possession of evil spirits when science would have you treat someone for epilepsy. Oh wait, he does have you believing in that doesn't he....

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-12-2014, 10:21 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(17-12-2014 12:03 PM)Gordon Wrote:  
(17-12-2014 11:54 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  God had nothing whatever to do with Fleming's accidental discovery of antibiotics. After hundreds of thousands of years of human suffering, a HUMAN is responsible, (with NO HELP from any god) for it's discovery. You and your dog are not special.

Fuck you. He discovered penicillin by accident. "Discovered" it, he didn't invent it. You don't think its a miracle--well of course you don't. You're an ignorant atheist.

We can add bigot to the list of wonderful attributes you are racking up. Being a member of a group doesn't make you automatically ignorant, unless you have a prejudice about Atheists, which clearly you do. You act like you have it all figured out but I have yet to read one statement by you on the subject that is verifiable and true.

This miracle business all hinges on definition. If you think miracles are merely unlikely events, then they exist. If you take the traditional definition, as I do, that miracles are a supernatural suspension of the natural order, they do not exist. Honestly, the types of miracles we hear about from you believers are almost always incredibly stupid. God healed your dogs ear? Was he too busy to help starving and suffering children in third world nations like Somalia?

Funny how it all revolves around you, you egocentric fuck. God's revelations and miracles seem awfully involved in your life. There couldn't possibly be something more important for him to be doing. I mean, the fucking size of your balls, you piece of shit prick.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-12-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(17-12-2014 03:49 PM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  So according to Gordumb his god suddenly decides to cure his dog's ear? That is the proof he presents to us? Why did this god let an innocent animal suffer up to that point? For that matter why does this monster err god allow any innocent child to suffer and die on a fucking daily basis but chooses to heal little fido's fucking ear?

Fuck you gordumb and your evil fairytale.

More to the point, who the fuck wants to be the dog this nut-bag asshole takes care of? Fuck me.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-12-2014, 10:52 AM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(18-12-2014 12:19 AM)Gordon Wrote:  Anyway I've blabbered on too much

You are demonstrably wrong on nearly everything you say, but we still appreciate it when you include true statements now and again.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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18-12-2014, 11:34 AM (This post was last modified: 18-12-2014 12:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(17-12-2014 12:03 PM)Gordon Wrote:  Fuck you. He discovered penicillin by accident. "Discovered" it, he didn't invent it. You don't think its a miracle--well of course you don't. You're an ignorant atheist.

No one said he invented it, retard. I told you he discovered it. YOU said nothing until I brought it up. BTW, Gordo, you let me know when YOU get into Cal Tech AND Harvard ... then we'll see who is "ignorant".

Telling us to "talk to the gods" about all the suffering in the world, as you ONLY care about YOUR dog demonstrates how totally intellectually dishonest and bankrupt your nonsense is. You ARE a deluded pathetic sick narcissist as you yet again demonstrated you ONLY care about you ("and your little dog too"). Weeping

And totally per your MO/schtick, when faced with an inconvenient problem/question you retreat and call names as you run away. Coward.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-12-2014, 12:04 PM
RE: Gordonic Derrangement- Not Pleased to Meet You Twice
(18-12-2014 07:58 AM)Gordon Wrote:  
(18-12-2014 12:41 AM)Mr Woof Wrote:  Must be drinkies time.....or is it coke. Big mouths behind the screen abound!

Hey Mr. Woof. It's my opinion that once someone tells someone else online to kill themselves, as Whiskey did, there is no sense in addressing them. They are in fact the worst kind of scum humanity produces. They may not be out murdering people, but they're trying to get people to murder themselves, and that's almost sicker because it's more cowardly and weak.

Whiskey may hide behind whatever banner he wants: gay rights, atheism, etc., but those are just thin veils over a very sick mind. He could care less if his words cause a suicide; in fact he would probably feel some self-esteem boost if he knew a person did commit suicide over something he's said.

He looks like someone who's been or would be bullied a great deal in his life. That doesn't excuse his online behavior--in fact his online behavior retroactively makes the bullying he got justified.

What's sad is that atheists have to welcome him into their fold. They have to because atheism has no ultimate authority for morality. Whiskey, from an atheistic perspective is simply a defective mutation responding badly to his environmental stimuli. As an atheist he can't be blamed for being the type of person who encourages suicides online...which is probably why he's an atheist. Undecided

(18-12-2014 01:31 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I am not sure I follow. Intuitively I know that it is wrong to punish someone for a crime they do not commit. I can very easily evaluate gods actions, consider the reasons or none reasons for them, and conclude that it is unjust or wrong. It seems rather reasonable to hold god to the same standard of moral reasoning we hold people to; after all, by definition, god is the most righteous moral actor in existence. It seem contradictory than that he should behave in ways described in the bible and condone such incredible injustice.

You do have a point there. I mean if God is above morality, okay. But if He then imposes a morality on humans (I think we could all agree that for instance cruelty is wrong in all societies.), He must then be innocent of cruelty Himself or He becomes a hypocrite. Or does he? Actually, perhaps He does not. The rule is for humans to not be cruel. Right?

Quote:But this conflict only exist if you make god the cause of everything. You can alleviate god of this burden if you allow that some suffering takes place without cause. This allows god to still be benevolent - he wishes that people did not suffer - but no omnipotent, because he incapable or unwilling to stop it. It doesn't seem possible to reconcile omnipotence and benevolence in the same deity.

I see what you're saying. But if God is not omnipotent--then He is not God. He may be a sub-god, but there would still be a larger god that was omnipotent.

Quote:Of course it is possible that god is not the source of morality at all. God can still be all powerful then and not be particularly concerned with fairness or mercy. That would make many parts in the bible difficult to understand. It would also make god an unattractive deity for worship.

If god has revealed things to you please share it. I would hope the creator of the universe is capable of providing a coherent explanation for the nature of the world, It would be a very disappointing deity indeed if he can be casually outwitted by, well, me Smile.

I don't think you want the answer I was given last night. I really would rather leave this alone. Confused

I appreciate that you acknowledged my points but you haven't said anything to address the conflict. Is god the cause of all suffering in the world, then if so why (considering of course innocents like children)? If god is not the cause of suffering, why does he condone it(again, considering innocents like children)? How can god be both moral and omnipotent?
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