Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
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14-07-2011, 06:09 PM
Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
It's this old man. I kind of feel sorry for him. He came by one day when a friend of ours was house-sitting, & the friend was just too softhearted to give him the brush-off. He's been back about 5 times that I know of. This guy will not quit. He got the tiniest crumb of encouragement from our friend & he's now imprinted on our house. He's really old, & kind of frail. Usually he has some burly & unsmiling companion who stands down on the sidewalk, most definitely not exuding the love of god, but today he came alone.

He looked down at his watchtower pamphlet. "This talks about a real government," he said. He said the world has problems, & I said if there were a god, we wouldn't have these problems. He looked at me wonderingly, & a bit hungrily. "You don't believe in god?" He said - ok I hadn't heard this before but to be honest I'd never been curious - he said that Satan was an angel who "got too big for his britches," & since several thousand other angels witnessed this, jehovah had no choice but to give satan control of the government of earth. And now jehovah has seen that satan's idea of government isn't working out, so as it clearly says in scripture, we are near the end of times & jehovah will be taking over again.

Really? ALL of history so far has been under the governance of satan?

Every time you say you don't believe, Jesus rips the wings off a fairy. - SkepticalParenting.com
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14-07-2011, 06:48 PM (This post was last modified: 14-07-2011 07:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
(14-07-2011 06:09 PM)EvilMomLady Wrote:  Really? ALL of history so far has been under the governance of satan?

Yup, or at least the supervision. Old dude's just walking around looking for/hoping for a reason to believe. He ain't proselytizing.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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14-07-2011, 08:28 PM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
I was thinking about how people seem to read the Bible a whole lot more as they get older; then it dawned on me - they're cramming for their final exam.
-George Carlin

Looks like someone is fishing for some extra credit.

"We Humans are capable of greatness." -Carl Sagan
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15-07-2011, 06:30 AM
 
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
They come knocking on my door about once a month.
They didn't come the month before the rapture and just started coming again a couple of days ago.
Just when I had my hopes up they had been raptured.
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18-07-2011, 11:47 AM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
Since I grew up with Jehovah's Witness parents I can decode the whole thing for you.

(14-07-2011 06:09 PM)EvilMomLady Wrote:  It's this old man. I kind of feel sorry for him. He came by one day when a friend of ours was house-sitting, & the friend was just too softhearted to give him the brush-off. He's been back about 5 times that I know of. This guy will not quit. He got the tiniest crumb of encouragement from our friend & he's now imprinted on our house.
JWs are very methodical in their door to door business. They keep very detailed notes of each and every door they ring. Even the slightest of opening, the faintest interest, will put you on their radar. Your name will go on record and they will seek on you like bloodhounds. They will not understand that you are listening to be polite. If they say "Can I come back next week at 4pm" and you say "Sure whatever" just to get them out of your way, they will in fact show up next week at precisely 4pm! The only way is to be very firm in your refusal to have anything to do with JWs.

Quote:He looked down at his watchtower pamphlet. "This talks about a real government," he said. He said the world has problems, & I said if there were a god, we wouldn't have these problems. He looked at me wonderingly, & a bit hungrily. "You don't believe in god?" He said - ok I hadn't heard this before but to be honest I'd never been curious - he said that Satan was an angel who "got too big for his britches," & since several thousand other angels witnessed this, jehovah had no choice but to give satan control of the government of earth. And now jehovah has seen that satan's idea of government isn't working out, so as it clearly says in scripture, we are near the end of times & jehovah will be taking over again.

Really? ALL of history so far has been under the governance of satan?
Yes, this is pretty much the JW explanation of evil in the world. Basically god was blessing the earth right up to when Adam and Eve sinned, at which point god cursed not just them, but the entire planet, including animals, the environment, everything. That's why there are diseases, natural disasters, etc. So in their view, it isn't really poor god's fault, it was Adam and Eve. Now I remember asking my parents why in the heck would god punish all of creation for what those 2 did, and got the rather vague answer that "that's required by the laws that god made up". Confused
So then it gets better. Because remember Satan likes to play bets with god, like he did with Job? Ok, so apparently, Satan challenged god that he can do a better job at running the Earth than god did. So god said "Cool, knock yourself out!" and left Earth, mankind, etc in Satan's hands and basically stood back to watch. And as we all know, Satan is one clumsy mo-fo, so that's why everything is going to hell in a hand basket, and god is so, so sad about this, but he can't do anything, you see, he needs to let Satan show himself he can't in fact run things. But this is all ok, because god only gave Satan a finite time to try show he can do better than god, and, OMG, the time is running out!!! Like... any time now!! Like it could be tomorrow!!! So quick, hurry up and give the JW all your money, drop everything you are doing and become a nice little Christian, so when god says time's up, you are on the right side of the fence.

PS: if none of it made sense, don't worry. It's not supposed to. It's a cult, it makes sense only if you are brainwashed.

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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18-07-2011, 11:54 AM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
So God (who really loves us very much) put us in the hands of the master of all evil? Knowing he would fuck up? Knowing he would cause chaos, havoc, mayhem, disease and literally hell on Earth? What a kind, loving and just God!

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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18-07-2011, 02:15 PM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
(18-07-2011 11:54 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  So God (who really loves us very much) put us in the hands of the master of all evil? Knowing he would fuck up? Knowing he would cause chaos, havoc, mayhem, disease and literally hell on Earth? What a kind, loving and just God!

Yes to all the above. Obviously god being omniscient would already know that the devil would mess it up, but being good and fair as he is (lol) he has to let things run their course to show the devil he's wrong. Of course, in all the other instances god doesn't really care to do so, he just says you are wrong, and if you insist, he'll zap you with a bolt of divine lightning and that's that. But where it can cause the maximum amount of suffering and misery, apparently god humors Satan and allows billions upon billions of people to suffer and die so that he can say "See? I told you so!" And if you don't like it, you are going to hell anyway, so there... Big Grin

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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18-07-2011, 02:32 PM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
I always wonder what version of the bible these crackpots read. They always tend to find theories and passages that aren't even in there. Just like doctor (sic) Hovind that uses his scientific *ahem* approach based on biblical sources.

On the other hand, I find it somewhat sad to see people living up to old age, grasping to a bronze age book. I wonder if they really lived a full life in doing so...

"Infinitus est numerus stultorum." (The number of fools is infinite)
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18-07-2011, 02:39 PM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
Hovinid is a jackass that thinks there was a sphere of water around the Earth that released all of the water for the flood. He is not using any books or logic for that ridiculous and preposterous idea. As for the Jehovah's Witnesses this just makes me respect them even less. To assume that a being cares for you and loves you and then puts you in the hands of someone who is evil and knows that they are going to hurt you is even more evil than the person they are giving you to!!!!! This is similar to the Mormons who have a story about John Smith not being able to reproduce what he read off of the golden plates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFMgqYs0KIo) [the quality of the video is pretty shitty but I think the part I am referring to is at about 5:30]. They have a story that any logical person would realize shows that he was lying but instead they take it as proof that he was telling the TRUTH!!!! Really frustrating.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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18-07-2011, 03:01 PM
RE: Got Jehoveh'd today. This is their dogma? Really?
(18-07-2011 02:32 PM)Thammuz Wrote:  I always wonder what version of the bible these crackpots read. They always tend to find theories and passages that aren't even in there.

First of all, JWs have their own Bible, which is simply awful. They refuse to disclose the name of the people who made their version, officially, listen to this, "because they are modest, humble servants of god who don't want fame and praise for their work", but really so that nobody can check their credentials. It is mostly based on the King James Bible, but with a few strategic changes made to support their doctrines. For example, since JWs don't believe in the divinity of Jesus, where the Bible says "god" or "the lord" referred to Jesus, they translate it as Jesus instead. Or because they don't believe in the cross, they insist Jesus was nailed to a stake and so translate "cross" into "stake". It's entirely pathetic really, but then how many people know the original Bible languages and can go check it out for themselves?

Moreover, JWs are masters at quote mining the Bible. They are convinced that everything in the Bible is referred either to the coming of Jesus or to "the end times" so every single passage, no matter the context, is applicable to either. So they will pick a verse in Genesis, plus a piece from the Psalms, concatenated with a verse from Daniel, and make a doctrine out of that. To give you the, probably, most flagrant example, see:
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_10.htm
Here you can see how JW did the following:

We start from:
Luke 21:24, Jesus said: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.”
Now since this is Jesus talking, you'd think he'd be talking about a future destruction of Jerusalem right? Wrong, according to the JW it refers to the 1st destruction. When would the trampling end?
Ezekiel 21:26, 27: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.”
Who's this person? Jesus of course. So how long will the trampling last?
Daniel 4:10-16: “Let seven times pass over it."
Of course the fact Daniel here is talking about a completely different thing in a completely different context deters the JW by a factor of absolute zero, what counts is that we have a quote followed by another quote, followed by another. So what's a "time"? Why isn't it handy that we have Revelation 12:6, 14 to tell us (in a completely different context) that three and a half times equal “a thousand two hundred and sixty days"? But are they really days? Well, incidentally we have Ezekiel 4:6 that uses the phrase "a day for a year" (for completely different reasons), so how about that!

So there you go, by jumping throughout the Bible like kangaroos, we have even figured out how long it will take for Jesus to return!!!! Isn't that awesome? Now give us your money...

English is not my first language. If you think I am being mean, ask me. It could be just a wording problem.
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