Government – a dirty word for some?
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26-09-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Government – a dirty word for some?
It is fashionable in some circles to trash government every chance they get. It seems like the very concept itself is hateful. “Big Brother! Slavery! Don’t you dare to touch my Medicare!” – so the slogans go.

OK, Imagine no government.

What do you have: “Big Brother! Slavery” – this time for real. No organized services like fire, police, trash removal, mail, emergency hospitals. Ruled by the currently strongest bully boys who can intimidate and destroy their opponents and exploit everybody else to within an inch of collapse.

OK, some government, but not a BIG government.

How big is big? Everything is twice as big as half of its size. How do you define big?

All these arguments are totally silly.

We are of the same species, on the same planet. We completely depend on cooperation and sharing. Without that we would be still living in the caves and starving in winter.

We prosper, depending on how well we organize ourselves, how efficiently we produce for our needs, how far our science and technology has carried us, how well we take care of the planet we live on: the air we breath, the water we drink, the other species we coexist with.

That is what our prosperity depends on, not on who is running the show and what labels we stick on our institutions.

If only we stopped having fist-fights in our lifeboat, over who sits where, our provisions might last long enough to make it to safety on the other side, instead of dumping it into the ocean when we capsize the boat.
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26-09-2011, 12:54 PM
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
I think connecting firefighters and trash removers etc. with government is like connecting (christian) social services providers with church, thus religion. It's actually connected, but that doesn't mean that it depends from each other. That is no real answer, but we're in Philosophy Thread, isn't it all about thinking? Smile
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26-09-2011, 02:18 PM
 
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(26-09-2011 12:54 PM)darksky Wrote:  I think connecting firefighters and trash removers etc. with government is like connecting (christian) social services providers with church, thus religion. It's actually connected, but that doesn't mean that it depends from each other. That is no real answer, but we're in Philosophy Thread, isn't it all about thinking? Smile

A priest and the mayor go playing golf on a stormy day.

The mayor keeps missing and curses loudly: "Damn! I missed again".

The priest warns him:

"God will strike you down, if you keep cursing!"

The mayor keeps cursing, until a terrible bolt of lightening comes down from the sky and hits the priest, followed by a deep resonant voice from the sky:

"Damn! I missed again!"

Big Grin
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26-09-2011, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2011 07:31 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(26-09-2011 09:23 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  OK, Imagine no government.

Mad Max. Thunderdome! ... even though Mel Gibson is quite the prick.

(26-09-2011 09:23 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  OK, some government, but not a BIG government. ... All these arguments are totally silly.

I never know whether to laugh hilariously or feel appalled and embarassed to be in the middle of the current hysterical screams in the USA that socialism is somehow perjorative. ... "Pssst, dude, we've been socialist for quite a while now. We can debate over the proper degree, but that debate cannot proceed until you recognize the fact that we are already socialist. Been that way for awhile now."

(26-09-2011 09:23 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  If only we stopped having fist-fights in our lifeboat, over who sits where, our provisions might last long enough to make it to safety on the other side, instead of dumping it into the ocean when we capsize the boat.

Nice. The human condition. Reminds me of my own analogy of someone looking forward to a postmortem preservation of identity. "Dude we're in the middle of the desert and you're looking for a life-raft? Well I guess it could provide some shade and relief but it don't change our situation none."

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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26-09-2011, 07:39 PM
 
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(26-09-2011 07:10 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Mad Max. Thunderdome! ... even though Mel Gibson is quite the prick.

.........

I never know whether to laugh hilariously or feel appalled and embarassed to be in the middle of the current hysterical screams in the USA that socialism is somehow perjorative. ... "Pssst, dude, we've been socialist for quite a while now. We can debate over the proper degree, but that debate cannot proceed until you recognize the fact that we are already socialist. Been that way for awhile now."

............

Nice. The human condition. Reminds me of my own analogy of someone looking forward to a postmortem preservation of identity. "Dude we're in the middle of the desert and you're looking for a life-raft? Well I guess it could provide some shade and relief but it don't change our situation none."

GirlyMan, your last 2 posts were music to my ears. Maybe I will stick around longer in hope of reading posts like these again (I was a bit discouraged today but I shouldn't forget the good times I have had here. )

Thanks!

Smile
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26-09-2011, 08:38 PM
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(26-09-2011 07:39 PM)Zatamon Wrote:  I was a bit discouraged today ...

Train your bouncers and doormen that Frustration is permanently banned from the club. He is irritating at best and confrontational and counterproductive at worst. No room for him at my bar.Wink

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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27-09-2011, 05:02 AM
 
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(26-09-2011 08:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Train your bouncers and doormen that Frustration is permanently banned from the club.

Done.
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27-09-2011, 05:42 AM
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
I think it depends on what the individual terms as "goverment".......as the definition may vary from person to person.

I recognise that the goverment is a structure, that over time it has built systems that provide its citizens with there needs....whatever they may be (security, safety, welfare etc etc)

I myself dont really have any issues with the system, what I dont like is some of the people who are behind the controls and what leads them to make certain decisions. Human nature is the biggest and most "dirtiest" thing I can see in goverment.....not goverment itself.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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27-09-2011, 06:12 AM
 
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(27-09-2011 05:42 AM)bemore Wrote:  Human nature is the biggest and most "dirtiest" thing I can see in goverment.....not goverment itself.

Exactly.

So why pick on government (those who do)? The exact same human nature manifests itself in business, academia, etc.

Trust me, I have seen it all.

At least the government is SUPPOSED to be on our side. That is something that can be built on and improved.
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27-09-2011, 05:22 PM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2011 07:22 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Government – a dirty word for some?
(27-09-2011 05:42 AM)bemore Wrote:  Human nature is the biggest and most "dirtiest" thing I can see in goverment.....not goverment itself.

(27-09-2011 06:12 AM)Zatamon Wrote:  At least the government is SUPPOSED to be on our side. That is something that can be built on and improved.

Speaking for US federal employees, we are trained and indoctrinated annually with strict ethics regulations. We are paid to be on your side and you trust us to be. The training effectively reinforces that point by giving us concrete examples of individuals betraying that trust who ended up not only losing their livelihoods but imprisoned. The training is compelling. But note that these strict ethics regulations only apply to career federal employees, your elected representatives operate under a much looser standard. While that's not the root of the problem, it's certainly part of it.

I am us and we is me. ... bitches.
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