Government cuts
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
01-03-2012, 04:31 PM
RE: Government cuts
(01-03-2012 04:15 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Just ask one question. And keep asking until somebody answers it - rather than talking about some other shite:

Who benefits?
(Who makes a profit on the deficit?)

Central Banks???

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-03-2012, 04:53 PM
RE: Government cuts
Hughsie you are forgetting that to pay the way out of the deficit, the government needs taxes from the public and companies. If thousands are loosing jobs and company's shutting down due to cuts, then the government gains less in taxes, there is less money coming into the economy from other sources.

When people have less money they spend less which affects many businesses, meaning they employ less people which affects the economy and so on, it has a massive effect on everything.

The government should be lowering taxes and increasing the minimum wage. lower taxes and higher minimum wage, means more money for workers and better profits for businesses meaning they can take on more staff, people have more money they spend more which helps the economy, when the economy picks up there is more money to pay off the deficit. The government should be throwing money into science, technology and manufacturing, anything which would help the economy while meaning more people are in work.

It won't fix all of the economy's problems but its a small start, and makes far more sense than saving money you never had to begin with.

Behold the power of the force!
[Image: fgYtjtY.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-03-2012, 07:01 PM (This post was last modified: 01-03-2012 07:11 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Government cuts
(01-03-2012 04:22 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 12:10 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  And that's it, right there. What people "don't get"; what they're complaining about.
Not just that taxes can't be raised to cover the deficit, but where and how the cutting is done.

Defunding one disabled guy is going to save the government a few thousand dollars. Defunding all the disabled will save a few million dollars. Whooo-peee!
At the same time, the same government can't even discuss the possibility of defunding a defense contract worth several million millions of dollars - for something that's designed and built to do nothing but explode! Instant, deadly garbage.

Making it impossible for the children of working people to get a post-secondary education will save another few million dollars. The same government can't even discuss the possibility of cutting patronage to the top ten financial organizations, which could save millions of millions of dollars.

With all social services cut, they won't begin to be able to cover a fraction of the interest on the deficit - but the big ticket items, however wasteful, are sacred.

The math? The logic? the outcome?

And, of course, you don't hear a lot about how the deficit was created in the first place. Who borrowed what when from whom and what did they use it for?

I'm not sure on the accuracy of this chart but from what I know it's pretty close.

As you can see, military spending is not our problem. We are extremely conservative, especially compared to other countries, in what we spend percentage wise on defense. Entitlement programs and welfare are the problem since they make up like 60% of our federal budget.


Conservative?!?? We damn near spend as much as the rest of the world combined...

1 | United States | $503.4 billion per year
2 | China | $114.7 billion per year
3 | France | $55.29 billion per year
4 | United Kingdom | $53.43 billion per year
5 | Germany | $41.8 billion per year
6 | Japan | $35.48 billion per year
7 | Italy | $31.72 billion per year
8 | Saudi Arabia | $30.98 billion per year
9 | Russia | $29.81 billion per year
10 | Brazil | $27.76 billion per year
11 | South Korea | $23.57 billion per year
12 | India | $22.58 billion per year
13 | Turkey | $19.22 billion per year
14 | Australia | $18.69 billion per year
15 | Spain | $13.51 billion per year
16 | Canada | $12.45 billion per year
17 | Greece | $12.2 billion per year
18 | Israel | $10.24 billion per year
19 | Netherlands | $10.06 billion per year
20 | Indonesia | $8.438 billion per year

total | $1.224 trillion per year
highest | $503.4 billion per year (United States)
lowest | $0 per year (28 countries) | (2003, 2005, 2006, and 2007 estimates)
(based on 196 values; 44 unavailable)

Here is a better pie chart.
[Image: Fy2010_spending_by_category.jpg]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fy2010...tegory.jpg
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-03-2012, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 09:43 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Government cuts
Interesting supplemental charts i'd like to see:
- where each of those segments highlighting the remuneration - in salary and perks - of top 100 executives in charge of each category
- the difference in each wedge between the budget and what the end-users actually get. Bet money goes awol along the way
- how much the recipients of pension and health care have paid into social security and health insurance programs over their working life, compared to how much the military contributed over the same period
- whether the pensions and post-discharge health care of veterans comes through the military budget or the other two wedges
(Sorry, i just deciphered some of the tiny print. Veterans affairs is one of the teeny wedges.)

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Peterkin's post
02-03-2012, 08:41 AM
RE: Government cuts
(01-03-2012 12:10 PM)Peterkin Wrote:  Defunding one disabled guy is going to save the government a few thousand dollars. Defunding all the disabled will save a few million dollars. Whooo-peee!

Actually I think we spend billions a year on benefits.

If you're in England and you have ten kids then the Government will set you up in a 8+ bedroom house (rent-free), pay all your bills for you, provide you with a large car and give £50000+ a year to live on.

Having loads of kids is actually becoming a career path over here.

FSM_scot Wrote:Hughsie you are forgetting that to pay the way out of the deficit, the government needs taxes from the public and companies. If thousands are loosing jobs and company's shutting down due to cuts, then the government gains less in taxes, there is less money coming into the economy from other sources.

When people have less money they spend less which affects many businesses, meaning they employ less people which affects the economy and so on, it has a massive effect on everything.

The government should be lowering taxes and increasing the minimum wage. lower taxes and higher minimum wage, means more money for workers and better profits for businesses meaning they can take on more staff, people have more money they spend more which helps the economy, when the economy picks up there is more money to pay off the deficit. The government should be throwing money into science, technology and manufacturing, anything which would help the economy while meaning more people are in work.

It won't fix all of the economy's problems but its a small start, and makes far more sense than saving money you never had to begin with.

If you increase minimum wage companies will be less likely to hire more people. Some small business could be forced out of business altogether.

Lowering taxes means public spending has to be cut which the Government can't do because then the general public and the media go into a frenzy. It's catch 22, even though it might help the economic situation in the long run they can't do it because that's too big a concept for most people to understand and so they start protesting.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2012, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 09:10 AM by germanyt.)
RE: Government cuts
(01-03-2012 07:01 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Conservative?!?? We damn near spend as much as the rest of the world combined...

I meant percentage wise. According to your chart we spend 18% on defense. That is probably after Obama's 500B dollar cut to defense. We spend much less in relation to our budget than some other countries. And your chart still outlines how 50% of our budget is spent on welfare and entitlement programs. I'm not saying we need to get rid of welfare. Just pointing out that while defense spending could be trimmed still it's certainly not the budget issue that so many liberals think it is. Once jobs are up tax revenue will be up. With tax revenue up and entitlements/welfare down we can pay down the debt. And Ron Paul is going to use half of what the US was spending the Middle East and foreign aid to pay down the debt. The other half invested in education and infrastructure.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2012, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 09:41 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: Government cuts
Quote:Actually I think we spend billions a year on benefits.

If you're in England and you have ten kids then the Government will set you up in a 8+ bedroom house (rent-free), pay all your bills for you, provide you with a large car and give £50000+ a year to live on.

Having loads of kids is actually becoming a career path over here.

Well then, here is an opportunity for innovative thinking. How about a community designed for disabled people (easy to move around in wheelchairs, for example) and their families, where they get therapy (no need to travel) and instruction in new skills. Workshops where they can produce some goods for use and sale; gardens and hydroponics to grow their own food. Mutual support and co-operative school, daycare, teen program...

With billions, something real can be done. I bet a good many suggestions have been made. Nothing is done, because administrators and dolers-out of money earn nice big salaries for very little effort and rake off the fat - while the lowest recipient is invariably blamed for a system s/he didn't invent and is powerless to change. When the disabled are cut off, the top administrators are not in the unemployment line. They're parachuted into another cushy job, making decisions over another group of citizens they know nothing about.

Another matter that's usually overlooked when discussing government spending and benefits: where the money actually goes. Government buys everything - paper for all its offices, snowploughs, airplanes, jello cups in the staff cafeteria - from private enterprise... at huge profit. Nothing, but nothing is more desirable, more worth paying high-end lobbyists for, than a government contract! All that tax money is going right back into the pockets of the class that pays least - or zero - tax. Of course they make bigger profit on a bomb than a birth control clinic.... but the clinics and hospitals are also equipped by private, profitable industry; insurance companies have some healthy bottom lines. And whatever welfare recipients get, they have to spend in Walmart - which does OK. So the money government hands out stays in the country - megaprofits don't.

ETA Defense spending is a lie. Most of that money goes not for defense but offense. $100 a gallon gasoline in Iraq... and like that. If you stuck to the weapons and installations and troops that actually protect the nation's borders, it would be a nice, small wedge; the money would stay in the country, and the boys and girls in uniform could go home for the weekend and be available to rescue people from hurricanes.
PS Israel's defense budget is suspiciously small. I wonder how much of the US foreign aid budget actually belongs there - or rather, in the military.

(!%x*_00&* quote marks!)

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2012, 09:32 AM
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 09:06 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 07:01 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Conservative?!?? We damn near spend as much as the rest of the world combined...

I meant percentage wise. According to your chart we spend 18% on defense. That is probably after Obama's 500B dollar cut to defense. We spend much less in relation to our budget than some other countries. And your chart still outlines how 50% of our budget is spent on welfare and entitlement programs. I'm not saying we need to get rid of welfare. Just pointing out that while defense spending could be trimmed still it's certainly not the budget issue that so many liberals think it is. Once jobs are up tax revenue will be up. With tax revenue up and entitlements/welfare down we can pay down the debt. And Ron Paul is going to use half of what the US was spending the Middle East and foreign aid to pay down the debt. The other half invested in education and infrastructure.

I'm still not sure about that but I've been trying to find actual budget funds.

So far I've found what nations spend of their GDP, and US is only behind a several middle eastern nations(including Israel) Russia is close but smaller.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures


I found a chart of budget percentage that has the US still above most nations but those same Arab states, yet not all nations are listed here:

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/ho...eir-money/
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 09:15 AM)Peterkin Wrote:  Well then, here is an opportunity for innovative thinking. How about a community designed for disabled people (easy to move around in wheelchairs, for example) and their families, where they get therapy (no need to travel) and instruction in new skills. Workshops where they can produce some goods for use and sale; gardens and hydroponics to grow their own food. Mutual support and co-operative school, daycare, teen program...

I think there are too many lazy people over here. Our workforce has no work ethic for the most part and a large portion of the people on benefits don't want to work and don't see why they should work, even though they are capable of it.

I think a lot of people see benefits as a compensation system. Life's been a bit unfair because you have a disability and so to level it out you can go through your life not working. They don't realise that it doesn't work like that at all, it's about giving resources to people who cannot acquire them themselves.

I know a guy who spent most of his life on disability benefit. He walks with a crutch sometimes and has to take several tablets a day. However, he's capable of going on golfing weekends, going rally car racing and even single handedly built the decking at the back of his house. I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to work at least part time other than he's too lazy. He got paid full disability benefits for decades until he finally got a job (not because anyone made him, he got offered a job as a band manager and decided he liked the idea of doing it). He saw absolutely nothing wrong with his actions and I suspect a large portion of the people on benefits in the UK are in his position.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-03-2012, 12:45 PM
RE: Government cuts
People follow leaders. Put somebody up to the front who sets a better example.

If you pray to anything, you're prey to anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: