Government cuts
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02-03-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 09:32 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I found a chart of budget percentage that has the US still above most nations but those same Arab states, yet not all nations are listed here:

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/ho...eir-money/

Here is another. You're right. There aren't many that beat us but several tie us.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/04/05/how-...countries/

I guess my point is that we aren't exactly defense happy in regards to money. We spend a lot, sure. But we have GDPs 2 and 3 and 10 times bigger than other countries that spend the same percentage or more. And we are occupying dozens of nations as well as fighting a war in one.

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02-03-2012, 04:25 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 04:37 PM by Starcrash.)
RE: Government cuts
(28-02-2012 10:35 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  I have a very limited understanding of economics so feel free to enlighten me here people, one of the reasons I frequent this forum is to expand my knowledge of the world.

I don't get why everyone is complaining about Government cuts in the UK. We have a huge deficit and so the logical approach would seem to be to spend less to allow us to pay it off. Yet no-one seems to understand this. It's like people can't equate the deficit to public spending (which they probably can't).

The way I see it is if I was in a large amount of debt I would spend less and pay my debts. I think most people can understand that. But when you apply the same logic on a larger scale people seem to lose their understanding.

Interestingly enough it seems to be the same people who complain about cuts who complain the loudest about the deficit and go on about how it should be reduced. This leads me to one conclusion, these people are cripplingly thick.

Any thoughts people?

People are selfish by nature. Any time a politician suggests a cut, somebody somewhere is going to make less money, and that person probably won't be cool with it. In the USA, any time there's a discussion about budget cuts, I always hear people suggest that we cut foreign aid. That's because nobody in the US loses money when we cut foreign aid. We're selfish.

For instance, I think churches should be taxed. A lot of people agree with that, especially atheists, and there's no good reason for this double-standard that protects churches (whose own doctrine suggests they "render unto Caesar"). So why aren't churches taxed? Because any time it comes up for debate, churches cry about how they're being "attacked" or "unfairly singled out". You'll find that kind of defense no matter who the "victim" is, and no matter how fair the suggestion is (it's a double standard for no logical reason!). So there's that. Get people to work towards the good of their society at the cost of their own welfare and you'll get people to agree to budget cuts.
(02-03-2012 02:23 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(02-03-2012 09:32 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  I found a chart of budget percentage that has the US still above most nations but those same Arab states, yet not all nations are listed here:

http://visualeconomics.creditloan.com/ho...eir-money/

Here is another. You're right. There aren't many that beat us but several tie us.

http://blog.heritage.org/2010/04/05/how-...countries/

I guess my point is that we aren't exactly defense happy in regards to money. We spend a lot, sure. But we have GDPs 2 and 3 and 10 times bigger than other countries that spend the same percentage or more. And we are occupying dozens of nations as well as fighting a war in one.

The graphs look so nice and tidy, but not everyone agrees on these percentages in the first graph. ClydeLee, Creditloan.com doesn't even cite its sources for these statistics. And the second one, germanyt, is downright misleading --- GDP is not a function of our national budget. GDP is not a direct ratio to taxes, nor does the article's author explain why we would compare it to GDP. I think the more relevant comparison is a percentage of our national spending, not as a percentage of our country's products' market value.

This isn't to say that these graphs aren't accurate, but they are questionable... maybe even "sketchy".

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02-03-2012, 07:23 PM (This post was last modified: 02-03-2012 07:38 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 09:06 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(01-03-2012 07:01 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Conservative?!?? We damn near spend as much as the rest of the world combined...

I meant percentage wise. According to your chart we spend 18% on defense. That is probably after Obama's 500B dollar cut to defense. We spend much less in relation to our budget than some other countries. And your chart still outlines how 50% of our budget is spent on welfare and entitlement programs. I'm not saying we need to get rid of welfare. Just pointing out that while defense spending could be trimmed still it's certainly not the budget issue that so many liberals think it is. Once jobs are up tax revenue will be up. With tax revenue up and entitlements/welfare down we can pay down the debt. And Ron Paul is going to use half of what the US was spending the Middle East and foreign aid to pay down the debt. The other half invested in education and infrastructure.

That chart is just broken down more. I am sure there are a lot of the other slices like veteran affairs, pensions, etc...that the defense spending puts a big dent in.

Why would you even care what % you are compared to other countries or even the % of the budget it is? That is a totally obscure way to look at it. The only number that matters is how much we spend compared to other countries. We obviously don't need to spend the amount we do on defense. Most of it is just a corporate welfare program.

People complain about the 14 trillion deficit, yet we blow over a half trillion a year on defense?!? That just doesnt add up.

Quote:I guess my point is that we aren't exactly defense happy in regards to money. We spend a lot, sure. But we have GDPs 2 and 3 and 10 times bigger than other countries that spend the same percentage or more. And we are occupying dozens of nations as well as fighting a war in one.

No we aren't defense happy, we are offense happy.
We do have GDP's 2 and 3 times higher than other countries, but we don't spend "a lot", we spend 5 times more than china(2nd), and at least 10 times more than anyone else.
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03-03-2012, 01:53 AM
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 07:23 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  No we aren't defense happy, we are offense happy.

There is no better example of an ongoing Government-funded economic stimulus package than the USA's Military Industrial Complex.

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06-03-2012, 04:47 PM
RE: Government cuts
(02-03-2012 07:23 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  No we aren't defense happy, we are offense happy.
We do have GDP's 2 and 3 times higher than other countries, but we don't spend "a lot", we spend 5 times more than china(2nd), and at least 10 times more than anyone else.

If this bothers you then there is clearly only one candidate for you.



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06-03-2012, 05:46 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2012 12:14 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Government cuts
It does bother me, a lot. We can't afford things like universal healthcare. Meanwhile, 45k people die every year due to not having health insurance, and untold thousands more suffer. Yet we can blow that much money on defense?!? Some radicals blow up a couple buildings which killed roughly 3000 people, so what do we do? Full out war that has racked up a cost of over 4 trillion dollars & 6000 US lives & a 1/4 million other lives and counting.

However, I was unaware Ron Paul or any candidate talked about actually drastically cutting back on spending. I am not that crazy about republicans or even democrats for that matter, but if he actually accomplished this I would certainly vote for him. Solve one problem at a time would be fine. Of course I seriously doubt that will ever happen, no point in cutting the welfare for the rich, just the poor.
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06-03-2012, 07:33 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2012 09:26 PM by N.E.OhioAtheist.)
RE: Government cuts
This has all started with demonizing of the unions, Free trade, and deregulation. The tax base kept dropping and on comes war after war. Fear and lies, black opps. and hidden money passed through our budget. Trillions spent without a record kept. New dept based on more fear (homeland security). Once you have all these things you are going to have a deficit. Why hit the most poor ? It makes me so mad to see this simplistic answer. The rich don't want to give one penny more. They will take and rape the land, poison the air, poison the water, and keep the poor down and take the middle class away.. Thank your congress for this. This was the Contract with America of the 90's. And America swallowed it hook line and sinker.
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06-03-2012, 09:45 PM
RE: Government cuts
You know The Tea Party people are really funny.. Most of them from the Appalachian mountain area are on food stamps or a Government programs. I cant wait till they start cutting all the programs and see them look at the Tea Party guy they voted for and run them out on a rail. They vote against their own interest. Just like anyone who would vote for Ron Paul. Unless you are wealthy and own a business, you would be crazy to vote for him. If you lose your job and cant find work you will be screwed. Hows homeless sound to you? His son is even worse. I will never understand fanatics.
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06-03-2012, 10:25 PM
RE: Government cuts
Quote:NEOhioAthist:
I cant wait till they start cutting all the programs and see them look at the Tea Party guy they voted for and run them out on a rail.

They won't, you know. They'll be given someone else to blame by then - Obama, or Cubans or women who don't want unlimited babies, or African immigrants - because they know there was never any slavery, just like there is no climate change....

Hunter Thompson had their number. The American right thrives on fear and loathing. Turning one group against another. Doesn't matter whether the division is based on a lie or a hundred lies; doesn't matter who and how many get hurt; doesn't matter if it tears the nation apart (again) or even destroys it, just so long as it gets them into power.

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