Government is Irrational.
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15-07-2013, 06:32 PM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2013 06:40 PM by Koolay.)
Government is Irrational.
Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is morally wrong by the government's own definition. They fail their own test of principles.
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15-07-2013, 09:04 PM
RE: Government is Irrational.
Actually, the principle is that if individuals do those things is bad, butif government (as representatives of the people) do it, then it's good.

Not saying that it's actually good, that's up for debate, but the principles are logically correct, at least for your examples, surely we can find some contradiction somewhere Tongue

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15-07-2013, 09:36 PM (This post was last modified: 16-07-2013 08:55 AM by cjlr.)
RE: Government is Irrational.
(15-07-2013 06:32 PM)Koolay Wrote:  Similar to God, Government breaks all of it's own rules it inflicts upon it's citizens. For example, The old testament God flooded the entire world killing all of every living thing bar 2 of every species, men, women, children were all drowned from the very same entity that said murdering is always wrong.

If you put the Government through any level of logic or Aristotelian principles it becomes illogical immediately.

Government, similiar to God, kills and inflicts harm on people in mass numbers, breaking and going above and beyond all of the proposed 'rules'.

For example, the government can put people in a cage and call it 'citizen rehabilitation', but if you do it, it is called kidnapping.

The government can kill people and it is called 'freedom fighting' or 'justice' or 'foreign policy', but if you kill people, you are simply called a murderer.

The government can steal and extort money from people and it is called 'taxation', if you do it, you are called a thief.

Not only is government irrational, but it is morally wrong by the government's own definition. They fail their own test of principles.

I'm not the first one to criticize the modern state apparatus (not with the anarchists around here!), but I'm more than ready to do so.

BUT

That is not criticism of the concept of a government, for all it may apply to specific ones that currently exist.

In an ideal case (what can I say, I'm an optimist Rolleyes ) government is just the voluntary and consensual organization of citizens.

So, the actions it carries out are therefore deemed necessary, by some sufficient majority, in order to maintain society. A rehabilitative justice system prevents further crime, taxation pays for services the people have decided are necessary, a military is a societal extension of self-defense...

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16-07-2013, 03:17 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
The concept of government is entirely rational and to think otherwise would be refuting the most basic implications of sociological and neurological research.

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16-07-2013, 03:45 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
Ok, so you say government is bad. Cool story bro, needs a few more dragons though... Consider

What's your solution?
How do you propose we fix the so called problem of government?

This is the same as people who are against the monetary system. They don't fully understand what it is and what it's purpose is etc.. and so they are quick to judge and criticize, yet just as with the monetary system, I'm not hearing any solutions let alone any real world practical solutions.


Less bitching and whining because you don't like paying taxes, and more problem solving and solution presenting.

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16-07-2013, 04:02 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
(15-07-2013 09:04 PM)nach_in Wrote:  Actually, the principle is that if individuals do those things is bad, butif government (as representatives of the people) do it, then it's good.

Then it's not a principle.

If I say "rape is wrong, except for if you are wearing a hat while doing so" then obviously I don't really care about the principle of 'rape is wrong' if I just arbitrarily create exceptions to the rule. Either all rape must be wrong or none for it to be a valid principle.

Saying "bombing, killing and stealing from people is wrong, but if you have a badge and a blue costume then it is okay" That would be equally absurd and wrong, yet scarily all too normalised by society.
(15-07-2013 09:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  In an ideal case (what can I say, I'm an optimist :rolleyesSmile government is just the voluntary and consensual organization of citizens.

Sorry, but what has that got do with anything? Is the state a valid entity or not? optimism has nothing to do with it, anymore than your mood can affect mathematical formulas.

By voluntary and consensual, you are saying every single person agrees explicitly to have a government? How can you assume that?

(16-07-2013 03:17 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  The concept of government is entirely rational and to think otherwise would be refuting the most basic implications of sociological and neurological research.

I'm sorry but what has research got to do with anything? Is the government a contradictory entity or not?

(16-07-2013 03:45 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  What's your solution?
How do you propose we fix the so called problem of government?

Why would I have a solution? I am just one person, I do not know what is best for 7 billion people, the people them self can peacefully and voluntarily decide what they want. Not a system violently opposing their will on others.

Are you are agreeing that Government is a contradictory entity?
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16-07-2013, 04:07 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
(16-07-2013 04:02 AM)Koolay Wrote:  I'm sorry but what has research got to do with anything? Is the government a contradictory entity or not?

If you do not understand the implications of sociology, then you clearly have no reason to criticize government.

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16-07-2013, 04:08 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
(16-07-2013 04:07 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 04:02 AM)Koolay Wrote:  I'm sorry but what has research got to do with anything? Is the government a contradictory entity or not?

If you do not understand the implications of sociology, then you clearly have no reason to criticize government.

Okay?
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16-07-2013, 04:29 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
(16-07-2013 04:08 AM)Koolay Wrote:  Okay?

If you don't understand why governments form, how can you criticize the logic behind it?

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16-07-2013, 04:56 AM
RE: Government is Irrational.
(16-07-2013 04:29 AM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(16-07-2013 04:08 AM)Koolay Wrote:  Okay?

If you don't understand why governments form, how can you criticize the logic behind it?

This thread is not about the origins of government, but merely analysing the logical consistency of governments.
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