Great Christian Fallacies.
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29-05-2013, 12:38 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
Quote:Who was god actually helping through this suffering? These boys' parents? Bishop? The boys themselves? What good has your god done through allowing these young boys to suffer the brutality they endured?

Your questions here are loaded, since you are abrogating the terms of the contract:

*Man has free will

*Man allowed sin into the cosmos

*Man performs the crimes you keep citing, not God

*The exact moment that God stops someone from having free will, He is denying His own power, since He gave man free will and a revocation of free will closes the contract

I've tried patiently to offer alternative understandings and meaning in the midst of suffering. The five boys killed by Bishop experienced violent trauma and went to Heaven. Even Bishop expressed remorse for his actions--that is, he stated in plain terms what he did was evil. All your consistent examples of injustice and evil keep demonstrating is that man is capable of evil as he is capable of good--you are merely asserting that the Bible applies today as it did then.

Thank you.
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29-05-2013, 12:49 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
Modern Neuro-science has debunked "free will" Decision are made before we are aware of then, consciously.

Pleasy, Madame Zelda said you didn't show up for Sooth-saying (prophecy) class today. She will not allow you to graduate to entrail reading unless you attend every day, and polish your crystal ball in a more timely manner.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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29-05-2013, 02:23 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 12:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Who was god actually helping through this suffering? These boys' parents? Bishop? The boys themselves? What good has your god done through allowing these young boys to suffer the brutality they endured?

Your questions here are loaded, since you are abrogating the terms of the contract:

*Man has free will

*Man allowed sin into the cosmos

*Man performs the crimes you keep citing, not God

*The exact moment that God stops someone from having free will, He is denying His own power, since He gave man free will and a revocation of free will closes the contract

I've tried patiently to offer alternative understandings and meaning in the midst of suffering. The five boys killed by Bishop experienced violent trauma and went to Heaven. Even Bishop expressed remorse for his actions--that is, he stated in plain terms what he did was evil. All your consistent examples of injustice and evil keep demonstrating is that man is capable of evil as he is capable of good--you are merely asserting that the Bible applies today as it did then.

Thank you.
This is a load of utter bullshit. The fact that you believe this stuff sickens me. Your god is impotent and uncaring and that is in the most favorable light possible if they even exist.
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29-05-2013, 05:32 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 12:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"The Bible is love and direction"--and murder and rape and slavery and incest and misogyny, plus a lot of tedious begats. You are making statements with nothing to back them up and special pleading. Again.

Again, very few threads around here on biblical wisdom literature like Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, repositories of those very things.

The fact that the Bible records murder and rape no more makes it an advocate of those things than a book documenting Nazi atrocities makes it firmly a pro-Nazi book.

But if you believe the OT (which thankfully i do not) god does advocate rape and murder. He tells the Israelites to kill Midianites and take the virgins for themselves. He killed presumably thousands in the flood.
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29-05-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 12:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:"The Bible is love and direction"--and murder and rape and slavery and incest and misogyny, plus a lot of tedious begats. You are making statements with nothing to back them up and special pleading. Again.

Again, very few threads around here on biblical wisdom literature like Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, repositories of those very things.

The fact that the Bible records murder and rape no more makes it an advocate of those things than a book documenting Nazi atrocities makes it firmly a pro-Nazi book.

Wow, you are delusional. God himself orders the atrocities.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-05-2013, 07:19 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
What Chas said.
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29-05-2013, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 29-05-2013 07:37 PM by Free Thought.)
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 06:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-05-2013 12:27 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Again, very few threads around here on biblical wisdom literature like Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, repositories of those very things.

The fact that the Bible records murder and rape no more makes it an advocate of those things than a book documenting Nazi atrocities makes it firmly a pro-Nazi book.

Wow, you are delusional. God himself orders the atrocities.

It doesn't matter, Chas. God dun it; therefore it's all alright.

To quote Jim Jefferies:
Quote:Religious people will forgive god for fucking anything. In their mind he does good things: rainbows, children's laughter, shit like that. But when he does bad things like hurricanes, AIDs, cancer, child molestation, then they just go: "oh well, god works in mysterious ways." What type of an excuse is that? What is mysterious about acting like a fucking arsehole!?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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29-05-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 12:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:Who was god actually helping through this suffering? These boys' parents? Bishop? The boys themselves? What good has your god done through allowing these young boys to suffer the brutality they endured?

Your questions here are loaded, since you are abrogating the terms of the contract:

*Man has free will

*Man allowed sin into the cosmos

*Man performs the crimes you keep citing, not God

*The exact moment that God stops someone from having free will, He is denying His own power, since He gave man free will and a revocation of free will closes the contract

I've tried patiently to offer alternative understandings and meaning in the midst of suffering. The five boys killed by Bishop experienced violent trauma and went to Heaven. Even Bishop expressed remorse for his actions--that is, he stated in plain terms what he did was evil. All your consistent examples of injustice and evil keep demonstrating is that man is capable of evil as he is capable of good--you are merely asserting that the Bible applies today as it did then.

Thank you.

I didn't ask you where the raped and murdered boys went or if the psychopath who raped and murdered them realized he had done a bad thing. I asked you who your god was helping. Please answer the questions I pose and not the questions you want to answer.

I'll ask again... who was your god helping with the rapes and murders of five innocent young boys?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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29-05-2013, 08:40 PM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 12:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Your questions here are loaded, since you are abrogating the terms of the contract:

*Man has free will

*Man allowed sin into the cosmos

*Man performs the crimes you keep citing, not God

*The exact moment that God stops someone from having free will, He is denying His own power, since He gave man free will and a revocation of free will closes the contract

There is no free will. Free will is gone the moment you come into existence. Whether you believe that to be by natural cause or through divine creation matters not. Through no choice of your own you come to exist. Therefore, man has no free will.

Additionally, if you believe the Genesis account (I do not), the fruit that Adam and Eve ate was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. God placed a serpent to trick them into eating said fruit when they did not have the ability tell good from evil. So while you may state that disobedience to God is evil, they would have had no way to know that because, again, they had not yet eaten the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

To your claim that "man allowed sin into the universe" I say bollocks. Creationists like to use the argument that when you see a painting you know that it was created by a painter. Hence creation must be the result of a creator. What you fail to realize is that if the painting is of poor quality, you cannot blame the painting. You blame the painter for making a bad painting. So it would be with humanity if we were in fact created. Imperfect creation is the hallmark of an imperfect creator.

Lastly, men do commit the crimes, but your god does nothing to stop them. The bible says that where there is light there can be no darkness. If your god is real, there can be no darkness save one exception: Your god is the god of darkness. That is the only explanation for sin (darkness) in his presence.

Sufficiently refuted, I hope you will turn from your delusion and accept reality and the cosmos for what is: Entirely indifferent to human existence.

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“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.”
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30-05-2013, 10:33 AM
RE: Great Christian Fallacies.
(29-05-2013 08:40 PM)FYAstronomy Wrote:  
(29-05-2013 12:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Your questions here are loaded, since you are abrogating the terms of the contract:

*Man has free will

*Man allowed sin into the cosmos

*Man performs the crimes you keep citing, not God

*The exact moment that God stops someone from having free will, He is denying His own power, since He gave man free will and a revocation of free will closes the contract

There is no free will. Free will is gone the moment you come into existence. Whether you believe that to be by natural cause or through divine creation matters not. Through no choice of your own you come to exist. Therefore, man has no free will.

It does not logically follow from one not choosing existence that one does not have free will.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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