Greening of the Sahara
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21-08-2016, 05:34 PM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(21-08-2016 05:13 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  
(21-08-2016 02:52 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  The hottest July on record was this year’s.
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=88607

The hottest June on record was this year’s.
The hottest May on record was this year’s.
The hottest April on record was this year’s.
The hottest March on record was this year’s.
The hottest February on record was this year’s.
The hottest January on record was this year’s.
The hottest December on record was last year.
The hottest November on record was last year.
The hottest October on record was last year.
The hottest September on record was last year.
The hottest August on record was last year.
The hottest July on record was in 2015 until this year.
The hottest June on record was in 2015 until this year.
The hottest May on record was in 2015 until this year.
The hottest April on record was in 2015 until this year.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/...s-agencies

Yup, just a hoax. Dodgy

[Image: spiral_optimized.gif]
What is the chart supposed to be showing? Starting at 0 degrees centigrade when?

It demonstrates the rate of change with respect to time, with an arbitrary start temperature.
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21-08-2016, 07:23 PM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
Global warming is happening. The debate is whether humans contribute to it significantly. Some people think there is not enough data to determine that. A not entirely silly notion, given that reliable data from NOAA is about a century old. Most climatologists seem to think that we are a major part of the problem. In my opinion, as a regular non-climatologist, nothing to lose running with that line.

The debate about ultimate causes, should not be shut down. But there should be no question that we ought to do something about it.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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21-08-2016, 08:17 PM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
I don't understand the reasoning behind the idea that we're not significantly contributing to global warming.
Even if this were true, are these climate change deniers suggesting that we should continue to dump billions of tons of greenhouse gasses into our atmosphere until we do cause a significant problem?
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21-08-2016, 08:28 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2016 09:44 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(21-08-2016 07:54 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I worked for Maurice Strong back then and I followed his career ever since. He started out with no education in a family whose politics were bent on the downfall of the USA, CCF party members, so he was essentially a communist in all but name. His aunt was a Chinese Communist spy by the name of Anita Strong. Somehow this man got a job handing out name badges at the UN and he decided so he claimed that he wanted to go back to the UN in a diplomatic capacity even though he had no post secondary education.

So he somehow gets a job with Jack Gallagher of Norcen in Calgary and then rises to head the company with no business training or experience making it the largest energy company in Canada.

Then he is appointed chairman of PetroCanada which nationalizes virtually the whole of the oil industry but he says he wanted to be a capitalist to get credibility so as to get back to the UN. Then he gets to be UN Undersecretary and chairs the Rio Summit. He is the prime mover in bringing in the idea of a carbon tax to transfer wealth from rich countries to poor ones. Then he is caught receiving a Thirty million dollar kickback and skips the country to end his days in Peking and admits a lifelong relationship with the Chinese.

And to boot he ends up worth over a hundred million dollars.

One has to wake up and smell the coffee sometimes and realize he was a front for Chinese investment in the North American resource sector and NOT a divinely gifted businessman. And all the while the Chinese are polluting their own cities beyond anything in the west.

I get the same feelings about Trump who tells his own daughter that a street beggar is 8 billion better off than he is. Trump used to be a democrat supporting universal health care and now we find his campaign manager crawling up the the rectums of Russian oligarchs while the Donald is praising Putin.

So how did he go from being billions in the hole to being , as he puts, soooo liquid you wouldn't believe it? And all with no brain.

Seriously. If the Russians wanted to set about screwing over the Republican Party they couldn't have found a better guy to do it.

I'm not a warmest or a coolest. I used to visit the Columbia Icefields as a kid and my parents had pictures of it from the early 1950s and we all knew that ice covered the prairies and we were at the end of an ice age.and we could see the glacier retreating by miles over a matter of years. No one questioned that it was getting warmer but no one thought it had to do with human activity and I don't think it does.

The temperature has not,in fact, gone up for about seventeen y e ars now so it all seems to me to have been a politically inspired hoax aimed at setting up an international tax system based on guilt about our overconsumption of fossil fuels while the poor countries didn't give a flying f about the environment.

Holy crap.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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22-08-2016, 12:13 AM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(21-08-2016 05:13 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  What is the chart supposed to be showing? Starting at 0 degrees centigrade when?

It plots the average temperature per month of every year since 1850 when records where first kept.

The spiral proceeds clockwise form month to month and is tracked by year shown in the center. The calibration is set to the baseline of 1850. As time progresses the average temperature can be seen to increase and then really take off around the year 2000 with new monthly temperatures nearly 1.5 dgrees Celsius or 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit higher than they were in 1850.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-08-2016, 05:11 AM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(16-08-2016 10:47 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  As years went by it the sea temperature dropped steadily and the place greened up.

I call bullshit on your entire premise. I challenge you to produce any evidence at all that supports what I put in bold. I will bet that there is not a single document anywhere that supports the idea that sea temperatures anywhere in the Med have gone down in the years you state.

On the contrary, if you do a quick Google search, there are dozens of articles about how they have been steadily rising since 1980.

So, go ahead, back up your statement or go the fuck away.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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22-08-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(21-08-2016 08:17 PM)pablo Wrote:  I don't understand the reasoning behind the idea that we're not significantly contributing to global warming.
Even if this were true, are these climate change deniers suggesting that we should continue to dump billions of tons of greenhouse gasses into our atmosphere until we do cause a significant problem?

The more informed ones say it's an inadequate data sample, to determine the cause of the warming. I heard this from some weather derivatives trader I once worked with. He also understands why greenhouse gases need to be reduced. That we ought to do our part, even if we think the cause is from elsewhere.

You know, you can agree that a new disease is not man made, and still understand why it needs to be stopped.

They are not all crazy.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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22-08-2016, 08:03 AM
RE: Greening of the Sahara
(16-08-2016 10:47 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  I read with interest this paper on the greening of the Sahara desert: http://www.thegwpf.org/images/stories/gw...-sahel.pdf

Too bad you didn’t just stop here before drawing erroneous conclusions.

What can be said is that Global Warming will cause shifts in forest and grassland areas. In some locales like the southern Sahel it may “green” because of increased rainfall (as temperature in the atmosphere rise more water vapor is trapped thus more rain falls). In other places it may cause draught and change the existing landscape to be more arid.

That’s it, that is all than can be gleened from the paper and from here

Climate Impacts on Forests
https://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/impacts/forests.html

Climate change impacts on forestry
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/50/19697.full

Shift in Northern Forests Could Increase Global Warming
http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...l-warming/

Unfortunately your takeaway from the very paper you posted reminds me of this old joke about arriving at false conclusions:

THE SCIENTIST AND THE FROG

There once was a scientist who studied frogs. One day, the scientist put the frog on the ground and told it to jump. The frog jumped four feet.

So the scientist wrote in his notebook, “Frog with four feet, jumps four feet."

So the scientist cut off one of one of the frogs legs. The scientist told the frog to jump. Frog jumped three feet. So the scientist wrote in his note book, “Frog with three feet, jumps three feet."

So the scientist cut of another leg. He told the frog to jump. The frog jumped two feet. So the scientist wrote in his notebook “Frog with two feet, jumps two feet."

The scientist cut off one more leg. He told the frog to jump. Frog jumped one foot. So the scientist wrote in his notebook, “Frog with one foot, jumps one foot."

So the scientist cut off his last leg.
"He said, "Frog jump. Frog jump. FROG JUMP!”

So the scientist wrote in his notebook, "Frog with no feet, goes deaf."

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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