Grief and Believer Envy
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19-10-2013, 08:45 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
I find nothing wrong with saying to family "I imagine if he were looking down at the lot of you, he would smile and know he was loved"

There is nothing wrong with using your imagination about what you think someone would do or say IF that person was still around.
The words imagine and if are the key. There are those that believe the dead move on as ghosts and all that mess and you don't have to buy into that in order to use your own imagination and the word if.

In this way you can connect to grieving loved ones and still maintain your atheism.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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19-10-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 06:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 04:52 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Well at least you have admitted that your non-belief system sucks. I guess non-belief has its advantages too in terms of getting short term pleasures. Whereas God requires us to delay gratification in order to server and worship him. The notion of God having a say about what his creation should be doing is rather offensive to atheists, but their way around it is to simply deny that God exists. Then they can do whatever they like.

You have not proven that God does not exist. Even Dawkins admits that he has not 100% proved that God does not exist.

The Personal Issues and Support section is not an area where we debate. It is for support when people are feeling down and similar situations. You have the atheism and theism section if you wish to debate.

morondog,

I agree with your sentiment, but this is the Atheism and Theism section. This is where the original poster wanted it.

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19-10-2013, 01:46 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
I want to thank everybody for their kind words. They've been very comforting to me. Even more importantly, thank you for giving me a forum where I can finally be honest about how I feel about the whole situation. Finally being able to say what I think without hiding it behind "acceptable" verbiage is very cathartic.

(19-10-2013 04:52 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Well at least you have admitted that your non-belief system sucks.

Sometimes yes, it does suck. That is why people come up with all these fantasies. To comfort themselves when they don't understand or when things happen that suck. Those fantasies may be more comforting, but that doesn't make them real. That was half the point of my original post. The passing of my father has been one of the few times in my life that I've been jealous of the delusions of believers. It would be nice to live in that fantasy land for a while, but unfortunately, I can't.

(19-10-2013 04:52 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You have not proven that God does not exist. Even Dawkins admits that he has not 100% proved that God does not exist.

True, no one has 100% proven that God does not exist, but then, no one has 100% proven that fairies riding pink unicorns don't exist. The burden of proof is not on us to prove that God does not exist, it's on the believers to prove that he does. If you believe that's not the case, then I'll get to work on that right after you've proven to me that fairies riding pink unicorns aren't real.
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19-10-2013, 01:51 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 09:33 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 06:17 AM)morondog Wrote:  The Personal Issues and Support section is not an area where we debate. It is for support when people are feeling down and similar situations. You have the atheism and theism section if you wish to debate.

morondog,

I agree with your sentiment, but this is the Atheism and Theism section. This is where the original poster wanted it.

Well, it's here because I'm a "noob" and didn't realize that there was a "Personal Issues and Support" section, not that I specifically wanted it here. Now that it is here, I have no desire to move it. It is where it is.
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19-10-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
Whoops, my bad Tongue Apologies OP and Excubitor. Also kudos to you, OP, for being willing to have discussion of this Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-10-2013, 03:54 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 01:46 PM)ArchAtheistMichael Wrote:  I want to thank everybody for their kind words. They've been very comforting to me. Even more importantly, thank you for giving me a forum where I can finally be honest about how I feel about the whole situation. Finally being able to say what I think without hiding it behind "acceptable" verbiage is very cathartic.

(19-10-2013 04:52 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Well at least you have admitted that your non-belief system sucks.

Sometimes yes, it does suck. That is why people come up with all these fantasies. To comfort themselves when they don't understand or when things happen that suck. Those fantasies may be more comforting, but that doesn't make them real. That was half the point of my original post. The passing of my father has been one of the few times in my life that I've been jealous of the delusions of believers. It would be nice to live in that fantasy land for a while, but unfortunately, I can't.

(19-10-2013 04:52 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You have not proven that God does not exist. Even Dawkins admits that he has not 100% proved that God does not exist.

True, no one has 100% proven that God does not exist, but then, no one has 100% proven that fairies riding pink unicorns don't exist. The burden of proof is not on us to prove that God does not exist, it's on the believers to prove that he does. If you believe that's not the case, then I'll get to work on that right after you've proven to me that fairies riding pink unicorns aren't real.
There are one billion Catholics who believe that God exists and there are precisely zero people who believe that fairies riding pink unicorns are real. Therefore it is ridiculous to equate the two belief systems.

One billion Catholics have very good reasons to believe in the God of the Nicene Creed. I concede that God cannot be proven to exist in the sense that evolutionists use the word, however we believe by faith. To us faith is an evidence of things which cannot be seen, measured or verified in a lab. I would have thought that the miracle of the Sun at Fatima would be regarded as fairly strong evidence for the Catholic religion, however our opponents when provided with evidence which lends support to a certain viewpoint which they don't agree with, they simply deny the evidence and claim that it was group hallucination or some other rubbish.

So it is impossible to prove God exists on two fronts. The first being that God is supernatural and is invisible to us and cannot be seen through a telescope. The second reason being that no amount of evidence were it provided could be adequate for the disbeliever to change his viewpoint.

The evidence for Gods existent is there in spades if you have an open mind to see it.
This is why faith is so important. Faith is a willingness and a softness of heart to believe in God and to trust in him. It is a deep soul conviction which holds the knowledge of God which has been received by us from the church, to be true and an honest account of real events in human history.

Science has no place for faith. Science believes nothing until it is absolutely proven with a mathematical formula. That rules out a huge amount of knowledge which the pagans understood through the use of classical philosophy. The narrowing of human study in this modern generation to consider only those things which can be seen and measured has produced a very narrow minded society which is entirely ignorant of large swathes of human knowledge which was known by previous generations.

That is sad and shows that the physical sciences do not necessarily lead to an advancement of knowledge, but if perverted as we see in modern times, can lead to a narrowing of the fields of study and an atrocious ignorance of a large range of issues formerly taught in philosophy and religion classes.
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19-10-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 09:33 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  morondog,

I agree with your sentiment, but this is the Atheism and Theism section. This is where the original poster wanted it.

Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe the person who gave me a negative rep as a consequence of the morondog comment might retract it. Doubt it though.
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19-10-2013, 04:24 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 04:01 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe the person who gave me a negative rep as a consequence of the morondog comment might retract it. Doubt it though.

... God I feel guilty now Tongue You poor thing.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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19-10-2013, 04:58 PM (This post was last modified: 19-10-2013 09:32 PM by Anjele.)
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
Sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my father a little over four years ago. Though he had turned toward Atheism in his last years his home town is crawling with Catholics. We had a memorial there and were beaten over the head with the religious blather. A cousin told me that he 'knew' dad loved 'our' lord. Not the right time to let him know that he didn't know shit about dad or me and that no, dad didn't love anybody's lord.

We had his memorial at the golf course he loved with no religious crap scheduled in. We scattered some ashes there and my brother said that the golf course was dad's church. Good enough for me. A part of him added nourishment to the grounds of his most beloved and serene place.

Sucks that he got sick and didn't ever get better just as we were mending a lifetime of issues. Some things went unsaid as time ran out, but other things were finally repaired. He lives on in a lot of traits passed to us kids and our kids.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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19-10-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
I updated x-cubes rating. It's still negative because it always was. I just "updated it" to include his preaching to a grieving person. I updated it again, because he still doesn't address issues.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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