Grief and Believer Envy
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19-10-2013, 05:47 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
Why didn't you just say you didn't believe in God anymore. It helps taking it off your chest, but i am sorry to hear that your father died though.
Either way, i don't mind praying or even singing as a grace to god before eating dinner when i am with family, that doesn't mean you have to believe it, in fact i will say insecurity is the key there.
But i suggest to try and get out your thinking box and just think why you envy them, come to an conclusion on that one.

Do you envy their strong beliefs in God.
The fact is, it does sound nice, but what is the truth. That is what matters, even though it does sound nice to believe in something, i mean you can, nothing wrong with that, aslong as we know what the truth is, (which evolution have plenty of evidence for)
All is allowed in belief. its a nice feeling so knock yourself out in my opinion Big Grin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnXQdMRi63E
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19-10-2013, 05:57 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 03:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 01:46 PM)ArchAtheistMichael Wrote:  I want to thank everybody for their kind words. They've been very comforting to me. Even more importantly, thank you for giving me a forum where I can finally be honest about how I feel about the whole situation. Finally being able to say what I think without hiding it behind "acceptable" verbiage is very cathartic.


Sometimes yes, it does suck. That is why people come up with all these fantasies. To comfort themselves when they don't understand or when things happen that suck. Those fantasies may be more comforting, but that doesn't make them real. That was half the point of my original post. The passing of my father has been one of the few times in my life that I've been jealous of the delusions of believers. It would be nice to live in that fantasy land for a while, but unfortunately, I can't.


True, no one has 100% proven that God does not exist, but then, no one has 100% proven that fairies riding pink unicorns don't exist. The burden of proof is not on us to prove that God does not exist, it's on the believers to prove that he does. If you believe that's not the case, then I'll get to work on that right after you've proven to me that fairies riding pink unicorns aren't real.
There are one billion Catholics who believe that God exists and there are precisely zero people who believe that fairies riding pink unicorns are real. Therefore it is ridiculous to equate the two belief systems.

One billion Catholics have very good reasons to believe in the God of the Nicene Creed. I concede that God cannot be proven to exist in the sense that evolutionists use the word, however we believe by faith. To us faith is an evidence of things which cannot be seen, measured or verified in a lab. I would have thought that the miracle of the Sun at Fatima would be regarded as fairly strong evidence for the Catholic religion, however our opponents when provided with evidence which lends support to a certain viewpoint which they don't agree with, they simply deny the evidence and claim that it was group hallucination or some other rubbish.

So it is impossible to prove God exists on two fronts. The first being that God is supernatural and is invisible to us and cannot be seen through a telescope. The second reason being that no amount of evidence were it provided could be adequate for the disbeliever to change his viewpoint.

The evidence for Gods existent is there in spades if you have an open mind to see it.
This is why faith is so important. Faith is a willingness and a softness of heart to believe in God and to trust in him. It is a deep soul conviction which holds the knowledge of God which has been received by us from the church, to be true and an honest account of real events in human history.

Science has no place for faith. Science believes nothing until it is absolutely proven with a mathematical formula. That rules out a huge amount of knowledge which the pagans understood through the use of classical philosophy. The narrowing of human study in this modern generation to consider only those things which can be seen and measured has produced a very narrow minded society which is entirely ignorant of large swathes of human knowledge which was known by previous generations.

That is sad and shows that the physical sciences do not necessarily lead to an advancement of knowledge, but if perverted as we see in modern times, can lead to a narrowing of the fields of study and an atrocious ignorance of a large range of issues formerly taught in philosophy and religion classes.

You could actually prove it with valid logic. I can't "see" gravity, but I can see the effect it has on objects.

It's illogical to conceive of a god like yours...one that opens up doors to hell instead of closes them. Or a god that convoluted the simplest of concepts. If he wanted to forgive our sins, sins that he created, he could have simply forgiven. No need for human sacrifice or scapegoating.

That would be enough for me. Logic, reason. Not the shit you spew disguised as love but based on fear, guilt and intolerance instead
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19-10-2013, 09:23 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 01:51 PM)ArchAtheistMichael Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 09:33 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  morondog,

I agree with your sentiment, but this is the Atheism and Theism section. This is where the original poster wanted it.

Well, it's here because I'm a "noob" and didn't realize that there was a "Personal Issues and Support" section, not that I specifically wanted it here. Now that it is here, I have no desire to move it. It is where it is.

Right, since I PM'd you, I didn't want to reveal the contents of your private message, so I tried wording it in a neutral way, without the "he said".

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19-10-2013, 09:28 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 04:01 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 09:33 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  morondog,

I agree with your sentiment, but this is the Atheism and Theism section. This is where the original poster wanted it.

Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe the person who gave me a negative rep as a consequence of the morondog comment might retract it. Doubt it though.

You didn't break a rule, therefore no action will be taken against you in an official capacity. If people feel that you were a dick it is their prerogative to neg rep you. That's why the rep system exists. Thumbsup

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19-10-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 09:23 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 01:51 PM)ArchAtheistMichael Wrote:  Well, it's here because I'm a "noob" and didn't realize that there was a "Personal Issues and Support" section, not that I specifically wanted it here. Now that it is here, I have no desire to move it. It is where it is.

Right, since I PM'd you, I didn't want to reveal the contents of your private message, so I tried wording it in a neutral way, without the "he said".

I appreciate the discretion, but I'm of the view that this is the Internet, and is anything ever really private on the Internet? Tongue
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19-10-2013, 09:57 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 09:28 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 04:01 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Thanks for pointing this out. Maybe the person who gave me a negative rep as a consequence of the morondog comment might retract it. Doubt it though.

You didn't break a rule, therefore no action will be taken against you in an official capacity.
What? Do you think you are some kind of moderator do you? I deny that I was insensitive toward a grieving person. In fact I was sympathising with the person that his non-belief system had let him down during his time of grief.

You are a bunch of hypocrites. Nobody jumped into defend me when I have been horribly and directly abused with the most extreme profanities thrown in. It is so commonplace that people accept it without question. But when one of your own gets a little tickle on his funny bone you all go into spasms of self defence.

Who here offers me any sympathy or sensativity, or stands up for me when I am heartlessly insulted? Hypocrites.
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19-10-2013, 10:13 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 09:57 PM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 09:28 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  You didn't break a rule, therefore no action will be taken against you in an official capacity.
What? Do you think you are some kind of moderator do you? I deny that I was insensitive toward a grieving person. In fact I was sympathising with the person that his non-belief system had let him down during his time of grief.
Yes, DL is a moderator. And yes, your insensitivity is very apparent.

Arc's not been let down by any system, he's simply grieving the loss of his loved one and your inability to recognize another's humanity is insensitive.

(19-10-2013 09:57 PM)excubitor Wrote:  You are a bunch of hypocrites. Nobody jumped into defend me when I have been horribly and directly abused with the most extreme profanities thrown in. It is so commonplace that people accept it without question. But when one of your own gets a little tickle on his funny bone you all go into spasms of self defence.

Who here offers me any sympathy or sensativity, or stands up for me when I am heartlessly insulted? Hypocrites.

Stop trying to make this thread about you.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-10-2013, 10:23 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 03:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  There are one billion Catholics who believe that God exists and there are precisely zero people who believe that fairies riding pink unicorns are real. Therefore it is ridiculous to equate the two belief systems.

That should make it extremely easy to prove that there are (with 100% certainty) no fairies riding pink unicorns. After all, both fairies and unicorns are present in religions other than your own. I'll agree, they weren't necessarily pink, but we're not going to hold their color against them are we?

(19-10-2013 03:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  One billion Catholics have very good reasons to believe in the God of the Nicene Creed. I concede that God cannot be proven to exist in the sense that evolutionists use the word, however we believe by faith.

<snip>

So it is impossible to prove God exists on two fronts. The first being that God is supernatural and is invisible to us and cannot be seen through a telescope.

The number of people that believe something doesn't imply that thing is true.

(19-10-2013 03:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  The second reason being that no amount of evidence were it provided could be adequate for the disbeliever to change his viewpoint.

That is false.

(19-10-2013 03:54 PM)excubitor Wrote:  The evidence for Gods existent is there in spades if you have an open mind to see it.

Please elaborate.
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19-10-2013, 10:27 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
So much I would like to say but don't want to derail the original intent of this thread and excubed can't hear anyway. Apparently there are communion wafers stuffed in his ears.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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19-10-2013, 10:30 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(19-10-2013 05:47 PM)YarMatey Wrote:  Why didn't you just say you didn't believe in God anymore. It helps taking it off your chest, but i am sorry to hear that your father died though.

Thank you. Most of the time it doesn't matter since I live over a thousand miles from anything resembling family. I don't hide my beliefs in my daily life, it's just something that hasn't come up for a very long while with my family. Sadly, of all the people in my family, my Dad understood me the best. I don't have a lot in common with anybody else. It doesn't really make any sense to drop that bomb shell now. My mother has Alzheimer's, so the only result would be crying, gnashing of teeth, demanding how she had failed as a mother, and then she'd totally forget about it in a couple hours. Not something I'm wanting to do more than once.
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