Grief and Believer Envy
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20-10-2013, 06:42 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 06:28 AM)englishrose Wrote:  
(20-10-2013 06:23 AM)excubitor Wrote:  "That is up to me". And that basically says it all. Every man gets to choose what is right in his or her own eyes. This is the mantra of the atheist. This is why he casts away the church and God, because it is "Up to me" how I live my life and I am not going to have any pesky God or annoying church try to tell me what to do with MY.

To be a Christian is to submit to the authority of the church. What the church has a monopoly on is vast experience gathered over 2000 years of how things should be done, what works and what does not work. The church gives commands not for our harm but so that we might live life abundantly, so that we may know how to consider death and what it means for all of us, so that we may know what to expect at the judgement day and those things which are necessary for us to find favour from our Lord at the judgement.

Spurn such wisdom at your peril. Humble yourself and obey the rule of the bishops and you will find peace and rest for your soul. How can one man in his own lifetime assemble sufficient wisdom from his peer group to know how to live his life? To neglect or even reject the wisdom of the ages come from the prophets, the apostles, the saints and the great teachers of the church is a folly almost breathtaking in its audacity. Yet people cannot see this because they lack wisdom.

So I say to you Get wisdom. But you do not get wisdom because you do not value it. Therefore the scriptures says.
"Wherefore is there a price in the hand of a fool to get wisdom, seeing he hath no heart to it?"

Wisdom is hard earned. Its cost is very high even to the submitting of the arrogance of selfish pride, a form of death to the proud, but essential for the getting of wisdom. But the fool can see no lack in himself, he places no value on wisdom, he scarce can imagine that another person could impart wisdom to him that he has not already attained himself. He makes no sacrifice therefore to obtain wisdom. So he dies the way he lived with his dying breath saying "Its up to me".

In YOUR opinion.
No Rose,
It is not just my opinion. That is my whole point. We must not live our lives according to our opinions. The church is the authority on how we should live our lives. The church teaches us how we ought to behave
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The church is the very source and foundation of truth. The church has the authority to teach the truth and make judgements of authority on matters of faith and morals.

The church received its authority to do these things from the apostles who received them from Jesus Christ, who received them from the Father. No Christians siezes upon his own opinions and makes of them an authority by which they may live their lives. A true Christian submits his opinions to the higher authority of the bishop who was given the power to rule his people.

Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

So if we live according to our own opinions and whims then our soul is upon our own head. But if we submit to the bishop and be thankful that the bishop is guarding your soul then you have a favourable judgement in heaven and if the bishop led you astray (which is unlikely) then it is upon his head and not yours.

So reject your opinions. Search out what is true. There is only one truth and that truth is not subjective but is objectively true for every person for every age of man to which it is revealed. Nobody can suggest that each man's opinions is objective truth. Truth comes by way of the authority of the church, which in turn is derived from the teachings of the apostles relayed via the sacred traditions of the church and the sacred scriptures. Any opinion which we hold which contradicts truth of such great authority is worthless and will not stand up in the last day when it is proved by the fire.

Proverbs 16:16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!
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20-10-2013, 06:49 AM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2013 06:53 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
"Brimming with the foolish dogma of faith, thou prideful flock boarded thy boat thou it was sinking under the weight of mans knowledge. , the flock was thou too prideful to take the knowledge and disembark Thus it sank without deliverance to paradise ".

from the book of ramblings 398748:6

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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20-10-2013, 07:42 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
Excubitor, I just don't think you get it.
I am not interested in what your book says any more.
I do not believe that there is a god ergo, your book is nothing to me.
You can quote it all you like and give me your dogmatic view til the end of time, it will be as water off a duck's back.
You know nothing about me - I am a good person, I do not do nasty things to people, I am kind, generous, thoughtful, a good friend, intelligent (I went to school, college, university) and I have never needed the fear of eternal damnation to persuade me that to behave to my fellow humans in a decent fashion is the right thing to do.
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20-10-2013, 07:49 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 07:42 AM)englishrose Wrote:  I am a good person, I do not do nasty things to people, I am kind, generous, thoughtful, a good friend, intelligent (I went to school, college, university) and I have never needed the fear of eternal damnation to persuade me that to behave to my fellow humans in a decent fashion is the right thing to do.

This describes all Atheists that I know, I think the only people ignorant, hateful and judgemental on this forum are the theists (not all of them).

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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20-10-2013, 07:52 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
ERose,
Good effort but the thing is that excubed can't hear anything other than what he believes. Doesn't matter how you phrase it, doesn't matter how polite you, and trying to explain the difference between fact and myth mean nothing. He is so insecure in his belief system that he can't stand for anyone not to blindly follow along. He thinks that since there are so many Catholics his dogma must be true...numbers over everything else it seems.

He is here to try to browbeat people into Catholicism. After all, that method worked long ago so why not try it again. You are attempting to have a dialogue with someone who can't participate in a two-way discussion on this topic.

Qubert needs to go find people (filthy protestants) and try to convert them, at least they believe some of his drivel already.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-10-2013, 08:02 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 07:52 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Qubert needs to go find people (filthy protestants) and try to convert them, at least they believe some of his drivel already.

I think he just needs people he can be nasty to without feeling guilty - let a bit of that suppressed Catholic rage out (from frantically trying not to masturbate Tongue ).

Anyway he's not even a proper Catholic 'cos teh Catholics have actually got as far as the Earth going round the Sun...

So joining his little woo cult hardly has any incentive even for Christians - I mean, if he at least had some hot babes to schmooze up to...

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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20-10-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 07:42 AM)englishrose Wrote:  You know nothing about me - I am a good person, I do not do nasty things to people, I am kind, generous, thoughtful, a good friend, intelligent (I went to school, college, university) and I have never needed the fear of eternal damnation to persuade me that to behave to my fellow humans in a decent fashion is the right thing to do.

Why are you trying to convince me? If there is no God then what difference does it make whether or not you are good, kind generous. Why should I be impressed? Why are these things important to you? I will tell you why and I will tell you because I know you better than you know yourself because I am wise and filled with the words of God.

The reasons that these things are important to you is because you know, deep in your heart that these things are necessary when we meet our maker at the judgement day.

You say, "It is the right thing to do". This implies a moral standard which defines what is right. This is effectively God, for those who have no direct knowledge or relationship with God. This innate almost subconscious awareness of what is right is basically the innate almost subconscious awareness of God.
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20-10-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
Qubert, it's pretty presumptuous to say you know what's in someone else's heart. Or do you think you are a god?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-10-2013, 08:32 AM (This post was last modified: 20-10-2013 10:43 AM by sporehux.)
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 08:20 AM)excubitor Wrote:  You say, "It is the right thing to do". This implies a moral standard which defines what is right. This is effectively God, for those who have no direct knowledge or relationship with God. This innate almost subconscious awareness of what is right is basically the innate almost subconscious awareness of God.

If you want proof of evolution, then look at our morals in the preset vs morals in biblical times.

Old Morals;
Saturday trading = death penalty
Lose a wager = just rob/murder 30 strangers
Slaver = ok , but don't beat them to death to quickly
Daughter = slightly more important than the livestock
Baldhead jokes = Kill children all 42 of them
Rape = ok but the rapist has to marry the victim as punishment
http://listverse.com/2013/04/25/10-bibli...us-morals/


Without God us sinners created our own morals to replace this Awful Roman concoction.
morals are explained through mutual survival benefits, monkeys and many other animals exhibit moral behaviour. rats are very close to humans in genes.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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20-10-2013, 08:33 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 08:20 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(20-10-2013 07:42 AM)englishrose Wrote:  You know nothing about me - I am a good person, I do not do nasty things to people, I am kind, generous, thoughtful, a good friend, intelligent (I went to school, college, university) and I have never needed the fear of eternal damnation to persuade me that to behave to my fellow humans in a decent fashion is the right thing to do.

Why are you trying to convince me? If there is no God then what difference does it make whether or not you are good, kind generous. Why should I be impressed? Why are these things important to you? I will tell you why and I will tell you because I know you better than you know yourself because I am wise and filled with the words of God.

The reasons that these things are important to you is because you know, deep in your heart that these things are necessary when we meet our maker at the judgement day.

You say, "It is the right thing to do". This implies a moral standard which defines what is right. This is effectively God, for those who have no direct knowledge or relationship with God. This innate almost subconscious awareness of what is right is basically the innate almost subconscious awareness of God.
That would only work if god was a metaphor. Please...go debate with some theists. Go to a muslim forum, say everything that you say here on the TTA. You say you have the one true god everyone else is wrong I want to see how well your received debating with other theists.

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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