Grief and Believer Envy
Post Reply
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
20-10-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 07:52 AM)Anjele Wrote:  ERose,
Good effort but the thing is that excubed can't hear anything other than what he believes. Doesn't matter how you phrase it, doesn't matter how polite you, and trying to explain the difference between fact and myth mean nothing. He is so insecure in his belief system that he can't stand for anyone not to blindly follow along. He thinks that since there are so many Catholics his dogma must be true...numbers over everything else it seems.

He is here to try to browbeat people into Catholicism. After all, that method worked long ago so why not try it again. You are attempting to have a dialogue with someone who can't participate in a two-way discussion on this topic.

Qubert needs to go find people (filthy protestants) and try to convert them, at least they believe some of his drivel already.

You're right Anjele.
I must say that I do find it insulting to my intelligence to tell me that I secretly do believe in god which is why I am a decent person!!
I must also say that I had a laugh when I read his 'hissy fit' post about us being mean to him. On an atheist site? Oh diddums.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like englishrose's post
20-10-2013, 03:12 PM
RE: Grief and Believer Envy
(20-10-2013 02:40 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(19-10-2013 11:04 PM)BryanS Wrote:  I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I've not yet had to deal with the loss of a parent, but did lose grandparents close to me. The funeral service and family gatherings afterward are about those still living and their grief. For us non-believers, I think it is important to acknowledge that some need to grieve by relying on their religious beliefs. Thinking back about what made the recently deceased who they were, and talking about the impact they had on everyone's lives made me feel like I could connect with everyone as they shared their thoughts, some religious, some not.

Even though I didn't believe the religious sentiments, I didn't really feel like I was being excluded when people brought those ideas up. In those moments, nobody is saying religious things with thought of malice or intent to proselytize. And those who love the one who passed away, will naturally follow the conversation to memories and reminiscences you bring up. You can still have those conversations with your family if you didn't happen to have them on the day of the funeral.

I gave the eulogy for a grandmother I was close to who passed a few years ago. While I was delivering the remarks I prepared, I found myself actually able to feel joy about the memories I brought up. After my remarks, some lady who was a stranger to me stood in the back of the church and relayed a story about my grandmother based on my remarks. Despite it being somewhat a break in decorum, nothing made me happier than to know that my grandmother made an impact on those in her life. My grandmother didn't do anything heroic to cause this person to speak up--she just really, really, really liked dessert (to the exclusion of the main meal), and that started the whole church thinking about my grandmother's life rather than just about angels and god.

The idea of my grandmother floating around doesn't give me comfort. Right now she has no experience at all, good or bad. She cannot lament that she is not around anymore. Not all who pass go through this, but she suffered at the end of her life. I was relieved that she no longer had to experience that anymore. And even now, what give's me joy, even laughter, is the memory that she really, really, really liked dessert. That, and of course other memories, is what gives me comfort.
This post reminds me of a gross disorder of modern culture where funerals instead of being places of grief and sorrow have become "celebrations" of the deceased persons life. Football songs get played and everyone has to try and figure out what his/her favourite song was. Funny anecdotes have to thought up, some of which are actually discrediting of the deceased person.

It is essential to human well being to grieve and mourn at the loss of someone loved. That is what funerals are for so that people can mourn in a proper healthy manner. Funerals used to be accompanied by mournful music called dirges such as Dies Irae

The funeral was never a place to go to be comforted. It was there to bring out our sorrow so that we would properly express it. It was a place where we would be warned that all of our lives are temporary and that on the day of the death and the second coming of our Lord we would meet our maker and our judge to give an account. Funerals are there to teach us to amend our lives, repent and turn to a life of holiness.

Dies iræ! Dies illa
Solvet sæclum in favilla:
Teste David cum Sibylla!

Day of wrath and doom impending,
David’s word with Sibyl’s blending,
Heaven and earth in ashes ending!

Oh, what fear man's bosom rendeth,
When from heaven the Judge descendeth,
On whose sentence all dependeth.

Wondrous sound the trumpet flingeth;
Through earth's sepulchres it ringeth;
All before the throne it bringeth.

Death is struck, and nature quaking,
All creation is awaking,
To its Judge an answer making

Lo! the book, exactly worded,
Wherein all hath been recorded:
Thence shall judgement be awarded.

When the Judge his seat attaineth,
And each hidden deed arraigneth,
Nothing unavenged remaineth.

What shall I, frail man, be pleading?
Who for me be interceding,
When the just are mercy needing?

King of Majesty tremendous,
Who dost free salvation send us,
Fount of pity, then befriend us!

Think, kind Jesu!–my salvation
Caused thy wondrous Incarnation;
Leave me not to reprobation!

Faint and weary, Thou hast sought me,
On the Cross of suffering bought me.
Shall such grace be vainly brought me?

Righteous Judge! for sin's pollution
Grant Thy gift of absolution,
Ere the day of retribution.

Guilty, now I pour my moaning,
All my shame with anguish owning;
Spare, O God, Thy suppliant groaning!

Through the sinful woman shriven,
Through the dying Thief forgiven,
Thou to me a hope hast given

Through the sinful woman shriven,
Through the dying Thief forgiven,
Thou to me a hope hast given

Worthless are my prayers and sighing,
Yet, Good Lord, in grace complying,
Rescue me from fires undying!

With Thy sheep a place provide me,
From the goats afar divide me,
To Thy right hand do Thou guide me.

While the wicked are confounded,
Doomed to flames of woe unbounded
Call me with thy saints surrounded.

Low I kneel, with heart submission,
See, like ashes, my contrition;
Help me in my last condition

h! that day of tears and mourning!
From the dust of earth returning
Man for judgement must prepare him;
Spare, O God, in mercy spare him!

Lord, all-pitying, Jesus blest,
Grant them thine eternal rest. Amen

Incredible stuff. Packed with meaning and Catholic doctrine.

Now at funerals we get the most banal of football songs and pop songs. Its a disgrace. We have become a nation of morons.

That's the difference I guess between me and you. I celebrate life, you celebrate death. It's not just Islamic terrorists who hold this view, but some Christians who hope for death, because in their twisted faith, death is better than the life we live today.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like BryanS's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: