Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
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13-08-2013, 05:51 PM
Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
Over at Debunking Christianity I came across this guest article by a Christian apologist which tries to debunk New Atheism. Groothius seems to be an apologist of some standing; I think he's critiqued books such as God Delusion and God is Not Great, and has arguments about objective morality and evolution etc (something which started off with "if evolution is true there's no philosophical basis for objective morality." If you're interested I can get the link the blog post which critiques this argument) which I found on another blog but didn't really look into. Anyway, I glanced over the post and the comments (where it seems to get a good skewering) but I thought it might be of interest here, so here's the link:

http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.co...thuis.html

Opinions?

"Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence."

-Christoper Hitchens, "Letters to a Young Contrarian."
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13-08-2013, 06:13 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
What is New Atheism? Where did the old kind go?

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13-08-2013, 06:36 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
I will make a comment here on the "new atheists" that I intended to make earlier on another thread but that one has disappeared.

I accept that the notion of god is evil. I will not debate or disagree with that. However many of the "new atheists" make that notion central to their discussions, sometimes to their detriment. Hitchens decision that the islamic god was worse than the christian god led him to promote evil wars in the mideast. Dawkins makes the point of god being evil so central to his arguments that he can open himself to questions about his logic. It is not so much accuracy as it is style. As an aside I find Dawkins more than a little smarmy, maybe my problem.

If one is intending to convince others of their position than one should at the start be conscious of the other. If from the start "new atheists" insult the other they lose the target audience immediately. It is a failing of many of the "new atheists" to be "preaching to the choir" not speaking with respect to what should be the target audience.
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13-08-2013, 06:43 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
(13-08-2013 06:13 PM)elegant_atheist Wrote:  What is New Atheism? Where did the old kind go?

We got some new theisms, so we needed a New Revised Standard Atheism.

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13-08-2013, 10:52 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
philosophical basis for objective morality

WTF is that ?

Since evolution is true and there is no objective morality, I'm not sure where the philosophical basis goes to when it sleeps.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-08-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
That nonsense is what they call good "apologetics" ?
It's a few years old. If it's still an active argument, I'll have a go at him.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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13-08-2013, 11:20 PM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
I might as well say "If there is a god and he created everything then nothing natural can ever happen. Everything that happens everywhere is created. I don't naturally walk. I am created movement by movement to make it appear that I'm walking. God creates my every thought and every feeling so when I'm disgusted by religion, obviously god is too.
That's the only way it all makes sense"

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-08-2013, 06:28 AM
RE: Groothius' Critique of New Atheism
I got as far as "there is no god, and I hate him!" What I hate is having this desire to debate or even discuss these theological positions with such people, because it is pretty fucking useless. Tongue

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