Ground Zero Mosque
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18-08-2010, 03:48 PM
Ground Zero Mosque
Hey, erbody.

I'm sure most of you have heard about the proposed mosque/cultural centre to be built near ground zero in New York. I was wondering what people's opinions are generally speaking and specifically, if being an Atheist affects your opinion and how/why?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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18-08-2010, 08:36 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Wow, I hadn't heard about this! O_o

I personally am against it. I can understand their reasoning ("Islam is only stereotyped as violent" etc.) but I would also be quite against building a Christian church there. The way I see it (perhaps it's a small view), you can say "religion caused the tragedy", "a certain religion caused the tragedy", or "religion had nothing to do with the tragedy".

"Religion caused the tragedy" offers no support for the building of a religious sanctuary of any sort on the ground. Why memorialize and teach anyone about the very thing that caused such an atrocity to happen?

"A certain religion caused the tragedy" again offers no support for the building of a mosque. I happen to have a few good friends who are Muslim, and I would dare to say that their religion by nature is different from whatever might have caused the 9/11 tragedy. Therefore, you could offer the (reasonable) excuse that it's for eliminating the stereotype. It still seems in poor taste (in my opinion) to immortalize the location of the site of so many lost loved ones with a campaign to eliminate such ideas. I would support such a campaign (the hate speech against Muslims that I have heard in church, even, has been far too cruel and unjustified in regards to every Islamic American I have met), but I would not support the idea of changing the memorial of the resting place of those surprised, innocent people with some permanent structure for a temporary campaign.

"Religion had nothing to do with it" does not offer any explanation for the building of a mosque or any other sanctuary. There are plenty of mosques and churches already in NYC. No one's stopping you from offering you prayers to your sky daddy at the memorial site. There is no reason to memorialize a religious institution along with the memory of such a tragedy.


That's my opinion on the topic.

"It does feel like something to be wrong; it feels like being right." -Kathryn Schulz
I am 100% certain that I am wrong about something I am certain about right now. Because even if everything I stand for turns out to be completely true, I was still wrong about being wrong.
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18-08-2010, 11:09 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Whatever they want to do, I don't care much, I don't live in New York. I think they could build a nice tribute or something there, that would be nice, but I think at the same time we need to be grown ups about the issue and not ignore an entire culture because of the acts of a few bad apples. I'm opposed to the construction of any religious structure anymore, but hey whatever floats people's boat.

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19-08-2010, 09:05 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
My opinion about this issue isn't affected by me being an atheist, it is affected by me being a Jewish Israeli.

And I think it is enough to describe what I am thinking about this so called mosque.
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19-08-2010, 09:18 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
LeviTimes summed up my opinion on the subject perfectly.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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19-08-2010, 09:57 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Quote:My opinion about this issue isn't affected by me being an atheist, it is affected by me being a Jewish Israeli.
I might be having sex with a comma, but how can you be jewish and atheist at the same time?

Ground zero is none of my business, but a mosque in the place where islamic suicide bombers killed thousands? Would'nt that be a little uncomfortable for those who lost their loved ones there? Who the hell can even come up with the idea of building a mosque there?

Correct me when I'm wrong.
Accept me or go to hell.
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19-08-2010, 10:47 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
(19-08-2010 09:57 AM)Kikko Wrote:  
Quote:My opinion about this issue isn't affected by me being an atheist, it is affected by me being a Jewish Israeli.
I might be having sex with a comma, but how can you be jewish and atheist at the same time?


I'm fairly certain Israelites consider being a Jew a race, there is a big argument about whether or not being a Jew is a race, a religion, or a combo deal, it's kind of tricky.

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19-08-2010, 11:01 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
I grew up in NJ in the suburbs, and shadow, of NYC. I went to high school with someone who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald and died that day. My wife had a friend (who has kind of vanished) who's husband died. We both know people who were in the building and have friends who lost people they know. My brother-in-law used to work next door and watched the planes hit, saw people jump, and for several hours my sister did not know if he was alive or dead. I was not in NYC that day but I was close enough to see the smoke and feel the tremors. And, I am in NYC just about every week for work, and have lived through all the threats and warnings.

I bring this up only for the purpose of pointing out that I may have a perspective on some of this that most people here do not have. Anyway, my view, for whatever it's worth (which probably is not much), is they should be allowed to build this mosque.

This is not a religious issue. The politicians talking about the affront this is to the victims, and the Muslim apologists claiming this is being built to promote peace and unity are both missing an important point, I think. And that point is that you have land that was lawfully purchased and a structure is being proposed to be built that is consistent with the current zoning requirements. If you would not stop a Jewish or Christian center, you can't support stopping a Muslim one.

I don't believe in God and I believe even less in religion. However, I do believe in freedom, equality, and the right to be free from religious persecution. Building a mosque at this location is fairly insensitive (although I'm not sure what distance would make it less of an affront: a mile? 5 miles? It becomes a ridiculous exercise and non-logical justifications) but allowing government to team up with a majority of people to snuff out the guaranteed rights of a group who is not large enough to fully defend itself is absolutely appalling.

I'm proud to be an American because of the values we profess to have and guarantee to all individuals. I'm embarrassed when those values are thrown away and individual rights are trampled upon in the name of political expediency and re-election campaigns.

Anyway, my 2 cents, for whatever it's worth.

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19-08-2010, 11:01 AM
 
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
I would like to be opposed to it, but that would put me on the side of Christian bigots. As far as I am concerned, stopping this mosque from being built won't get rid of religion. It won't even challenge religion. It would just be an insult to the Muslims in that part of Manhattan. So, I am indifferent.
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19-08-2010, 03:19 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Thanks for the answers so far.

The sense that I get from many arguments against the mosque (I'm speaking generally, not specifically in this thread) is that the reason that this idea is offensive is because Muslims attacked non-Muslims. So placing a symbol of Islam in the vicinity of the attack is an obscenity. Newt Gingrich opined that Nazis would not be allowed to put a building next to the Holocaust Museum. I came across a piece of information that was new to me. They say that an estimated 70 Muslims died in the towers. One could say that the intended targets were non-Muslims and that these Muslims were caught in the cross-fire, but to me, that seems to deny the fact that there are millions of Americans of Islamic faith and imply that Muslims aren't Americans.

Does anyone think that the fact that Muslims died in the towers affects the rationale for or against the project in any way?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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