Ground Zero Mosque
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21-08-2010, 06:39 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Quote:Why call it that if its not gonna be built on ground zero


So politicians have something to crow about.

Michael R - I appreciate the answer. Perhaps anger can be curtailed by chipping in on the billboard that Moshe suggested. Angel

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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21-08-2010, 06:55 AM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2010 07:25 AM by Ghost.)
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
I found a map of where the proposed site is. It's about 2 blocks from the WTC site. Also, this is a conceptual drawing of the facade.

Thank you everyone for your answers. I have another question.

Accepting that this is a site for Atheists and that while there seemed to be some distaste in some of the answers on the religious front (building a house of worship period) but that a lot of people said that freedom trumped all other concerns, generally speaking, how would you explain the negative reaction from the public? By that I mean, why do you think that people (not the people on this website) are losing their shit? Also, do you think it's justified, partly-justified, not at all justified and why?

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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21-08-2010, 11:45 AM
 
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
I think "people" are losing their shit because they are just plain stupid, and have been manipulated by the TV "news" propaganda networks and politicians.

First of all, I believe this is a completely local issue. Why Obama or any national politician had to get involved is beyond me. The development and approval process for this mosque (actually a community center) had began a year ago or so, and it probably stayed local until some right wing hotshot found out about it and realized he had a golden political opportunity.

People don't understand that Muslims died in 9/11. In the US, 9/11 is viewed like some sacred event. It is so propped up and memorialized, that it takes on a religious significance. And since the hijackers were Islamic, and the majority of Americans are Christians, the event is seen generally as an Islamic vs Christian battle. Building the mosque would make Christians feel insecure, even though the majority of people who actually live in the area don't care or support it.

Mosque building is opposed everywhere in America, especially after 9/11. However, since these are local issues, they usually only gain attention in the local area. It is just that the location of this mosque (which may well be a coincidence) is a great political opportunity to exploit, and thus is made headlines on all propaganda networks so people "lose their shit."

Note that I do have to make the concession that the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and cannot be associated with terrorists. However, I am not saying that Islam is a peaceful religion. Those who practice it may be peaceful, but if it can be used to justify killing, or initiate killing (which is very easy if you simply read it), then I do not consider the religion itself to be a peaceful one.
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21-08-2010, 01:03 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
(21-08-2010 06:55 AM)Ghost Wrote:  I found a map of where the proposed site is. It's about 2 blocks from the WTC site.

Then I've been misinformed. I was told that they wanted to build it where it was literally overshadowing Ground Zero. I've got no issue with this, and I can see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to build it. The only objection I had in the first place is that I don't think that anything should be built at Ground Zero.

As for the second question, I agree with TruthAddict.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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22-08-2010, 07:59 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Call me an apologetic, but I don't view religious violence as a problem per say, rather just a manifestation of a deeper rooted problem; the human tendency to force your beliefs on others. There are plenty of people of all faiths that keep their religion to themselves. Because I don't see religion itself as the issue, I have no issue with the Mosque.

As to why people are freaking out about it, a lot of it comes from simple bigotry. Far too many people don't separate Islamic extremists from Islam itself. And of course, the politicians follow the people. And where is unrest in the political world, the media is there.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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23-08-2010, 05:58 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
(22-08-2010 07:59 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  Call me an apologetic, but I don't view religious violence as a problem per say, rather just a manifestation of a deeper rooted problem; the human tendency to force your beliefs on others. There are plenty of people of all faiths that keep their religion to themselves. Because I don't see religion itself as the issue, I have no issue with the Mosque.

As to why people are freaking out about it, a lot of it comes from simple bigotry. Far too many people don't separate Islamic extremists from Islam itself. And of course, the politicians follow the people. And where is unrest in the political world, the media is there.
Actually, the reason people are freaking out about the mosque can be summed up in one word: foxnews.

You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion. - L. Ron Hubbard (Creater of Scientology)
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23-08-2010, 10:02 AM
 
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
You know what the greatest hypocrisy of this shouting match is?

Christians claim that Islam is a violent religion because its goal is to spread its faith around the world, and those who do not conform will be destroyed.

Well....

Sound familiar? I'm pretty sure that was Christianity a few centuries ago. Then they say that Saudi Arabia doesn't allow churches to be built, so why should we let mosques be built?

Well, it's glad to know that American Christians have standards. Saudi Arabia is such a mecca (excuse the pun) of tolerance and freedom. The "land of the free" should definitely model its tolerance after that country.
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23-08-2010, 10:08 AM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
To be fair, I think the "Saudi Arabia" argument is really limited to Newt Gingrich, and I suspect he's making it because it's a good sound bite to get people riled up. I used to have some respect for Gingrich back in the 90s but those days have long since past. He's become a real joke.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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23-08-2010, 01:59 PM
 
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Well I'm a bit late on this one, but I have an opinion that's for sure. First of all I'm not a "monument guy". I remember my loved ones who have passed in my mind. No piece of granite where there flesh rots comforts me, and I'm not one who considers the site of the towers as sacred. The act is to be remembered. However I respect that my opinion is sort of unique. The way this is being portrayed is sickening the news has got people pointlessly worked up over a virtual non-issue. The more important question some are asking is why would the Muslim community wish to bring down all the worlds stupidity onto this endevour. Is it best not built just to save them the grief of dealing with nut bags, and possibly more pointless death. I've had a friend on Facebook say it would be like putting a statue of Hitler at Aushwitz. This is absurd, but it is a nice analogy. Many many years after WWII German = Nazi even though that was miles from the truth, and today Muslim = Terrorist for very simlar reasons and is just as false. My Atheist view only influeces me in the respect that I can look at things rationally, but so can many theists so I'd say kind of.
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23-08-2010, 02:21 PM
RE: Ground Zero Mosque
Quote:The more important question some are asking is why would the Muslim community wish to bring down all the worlds stupidity onto this endevour.

I think an even more important question is when do individual rights and liberties have to give way to the irrational rantings of a majority? I'd say that as long as nothing illegal is being done, the answer to that question is "never".

I have to confess I was a little on the fence on this at first. As I stated earlier, I am from NYC metro and I recall seeing the smoke from the towers on that day and sitting with my sister while we tried to reach my brother-in-law to confirm he was alive and ok. Those memories and the horror of that day completely clouded my judgment, but ultimately I believe that freedom and individual liberties had to trump my own irrational feelings on the matter.

Quote:I've had a friend on Facebook say it would be like putting a statue of Hitler at Aushwitz.

I've seen variations on this theme crop up in several areas from several people, many of them elected officials who should very well know better. It's not just absurd, it's outright offensive and, I think, bigoted. The explicit meaning of that statement is that all Muslims are terrorists and responsible for terrorism.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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