Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
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16-06-2011, 11:57 AM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(16-06-2011 06:27 AM)Lion of the Netherlands Wrote:  I don't know if anyone of you can confirm this, but I think it has to do with the fact that he was born-again when he was an adult, so he wasn't raised with Christianity, and my 'theory' is that people who where born-again as an adult aren't open to the idea of thinking rationally about their beliefs, and reading the Bible critically. Again, this is just a 'theory' and I'm only asking if someone can confirm this.

Perhaps when he was a young adult he was taking in new ideas without thinking about them critically; open-minded and credulous. Buddy Christ posted a great video about open-mindedness on another subforum:

(10-06-2011 12:30 PM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  Goes with the whole "open-minded" comment.





The God excuse: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument. "God did it." Anything we can't describe must have come from God. - George Carlin

Whenever I'm asked "What if you're wrong?", I always show the asker this video: http://youtu.be/iClejS8vWjo Screw Pascal's wager.
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16-06-2011, 08:16 PM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(16-06-2011 06:27 AM)Lion of the Netherlands Wrote:  One of the differences between me and my dad is that he doesn't want to critically read the Bible and rationally think about his beliefs, because his beliefs sound nice to him, while I'm more concerned about finding the truth. I don't know if anyone of you can confirm this, but I think it has to do with the fact that he was born-again when he was an adult, so he wasn't raised with Christianity, and my 'theory' is that people who where born-again as an adult aren't open to the idea of thinking rationally about their beliefs, and reading the Bible critically. Again, this is just a 'theory' and I'm only asking if someone can confirm this.

The thing about born-agains is that usually they already have their way to view the world. When they "find Jesus" they tend to assimilate this idea into their already existing life (usually to fill in an answer for something traumatic that they can;t fnd an answer for). Children who are being raised within a religion are still building their world view and more often run into glaring contradictions. So of course children and young adults are more prone to ask "why". Since your dad found his faith after learning about life that means he had it conform to his life which can work even with fundamentalism. That means he's a judicial type of person who likes strict rules and limited options. Efficiency and simplicity make him feel comfortable.

If that doesn't quite fit let me know.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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17-06-2011, 12:54 AM
 
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(14-06-2011 06:11 AM)Lion of the Netherlands Wrote:  I hope you guys can give me advice on how to proceed, because, i'm afraid my parents will be dissapointed in me if I express my doubts. I also would like to ask you on how to tell my best friend(he's also 17 years old) about my growing doubts, because we're in the same church and we go to a bible study group together, so i'm also afraid he's going to judge me for questioning my beliefs.

I'm looking forward to hear your advise
Hey Lion,

The bible consistently presents the earth as being old not young. The Hebrew word for day "yowm" is also the same word used for "age", an unspecified time frame. Have you ever notice that days 1 thru 6 all conclude with "And there was evening and night", but the 7th day never ends that way. In fact it never ended, according to the bible we're still in the 7th day.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if Cain was fearful of those who would kill him for what he did to Abel. Who were they if not other forms of hominoids, maybe they were Neanderthals.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if the following verse dictates a time frame of at least 40,000 years, He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations." Young earth creationism isn't biblical.

Considering your parents, you should show them how the bible actually encourages one to search the scriptures daily to see if it's true, Acts 17:11. Best of luck to you in your quest for truth, as for me Jesus is Truth.
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17-06-2011, 07:50 AM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(16-06-2011 11:57 AM)Efrx86 Wrote:  Perhaps when he was a young adult he was taking in new ideas without thinking about them critically; open-minded and credulous. Buddy Christ posted a great video about open-mindedness on another subforum:

Thanks for sharing that video with me, it was really interesting to me, and it explained open=mindedness in an great way. I also think you could be right about my dad taking in new ideas without thinking about them critically, because he's quite a believer in conspiracy theories, because he isn't critically thinking about such things.

(16-06-2011 08:16 PM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  The thing about born-agains is that usually they already have their way to view the world. When they "find Jesus" they tend to assimilate this idea into their already existing life (usually to fill in an answer for something traumatic that they can;t fnd an answer for). Children who are being raised within a religion are still building their world view and more often run into glaring contradictions. So of course children and young adults are more prone to ask "why". Since your dad found his faith after learning about life that means he had it conform to his life which can work even with fundamentalism. That means he's a judicial type of person who likes strict rules and limited options. Efficiency and simplicity make him feel comfortable.

If that doesn't quite fit let me know.

You're right about that, because my dad sees a lot of things as black-white choices because they make him feel comfortable, and I also agree with your thought about children who are raised with religion, because they can see a lot more contradictions.

(17-06-2011 12:54 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  Hey Lion,

The bible consistently presents the earth as being old not young. The Hebrew word for day "yowm" is also the same word used for "age", an unspecified time frame. Have you ever notice that days 1 thru 6 all conclude with "And there was evening and night", but the 7th day never ends that way. In fact it never ended, according to the bible we're still in the 7th day.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if Cain was fearful of those who would kill him for what he did to Abel. Who were they if not other forms of hominoids, maybe they were Neanderthals.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if the following verse dictates a time frame of at least 40,000 years, He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations." Young earth creationism isn't biblical.

Considering your parents, you should show them how the bible actually encourages one to search the scriptures daily to see if it's true, Acts 17:11. Best of luck to you in your quest for truth, as for me Jesus is Truth.

Thanks for sharing that with me, because fundamentalist Christians always insist on believing in a young earth.

I would like to tell you that I may have convinced my mother that a interpretation of Genesis in which the earth is 6000 years old isn't logical, and she was open to the idea of an old earth. One of the arguments I gave, was: think of a building such as a church in (for example)England, which is a 1000 years old. After that imagine the earth(and the universe) being just six(!) times older than that. The whole history of the earth and the universe being just six times older than that building suddenly made a lot less sense to her. I also pointed her to the light of stars that are millions of light years away, and because the light would take millions of years to reach the earth, it's a problem for young earth creationists.
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17-06-2011, 09:41 AM
 
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(17-06-2011 07:50 AM)Lion of the Netherlands Wrote:  
(17-06-2011 12:54 AM)Hunted By A Freak Wrote:  Hey Lion,

The bible consistently presents the earth as being old not young. The Hebrew word for day "yowm" is also the same word used for "age", an unspecified time frame. Have you ever notice that days 1 thru 6 all conclude with "And there was evening and night", but the 7th day never ends that way. In fact it never ended, according to the bible we're still in the 7th day.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if Cain was fearful of those who would kill him for what he did to Abel. Who were they if not other forms of hominoids, maybe they were Neanderthals.

How can the earth be presented as young in the bible if the following verse dictates a time frame of at least 40,000 years, He has remembered His covenant forever, The word which He commanded to a thousand generations." Young earth creationism isn't biblical.

Considering your parents, you should show them how the bible actually encourages one to search the scriptures daily to see if it's true, Acts 17:11. Best of luck to you in your quest for truth, as for me Jesus is Truth.

Thanks for sharing that with me, because fundamentalist Christians always insist on believing in a young earth.

I would like to tell you that I may have convinced my mother that a interpretation of Genesis in which the earth is 6000 years old isn't logical, and she was open to the idea of an old earth. One of the arguments I gave, was: think of a building such as a church in (for example)England, which is a 1000 years old. After that imagine the earth(and the universe) being just six(!) times older than that. The whole history of the earth and the universe being just six times older than that building suddenly made a lot less sense to her. I also pointed her to the light of stars that are millions of light years away, and because the light would take millions of years to reach the earth, it's a problem for young earth creationists.
Yes logic and the bible both dictate an old earth. My friends who are YEC resist scripture and science, being blindly lead along of stories were men used to ride dinosaurs. I appreciate the progressive creation standpoint, which refers to the two revelations of God, the bible and science.
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24-06-2011, 05:32 AM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
In case you're subscribed to this thread what happened Lion? Haven't heard from you in quite a while. I hope everything is going ok.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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25-06-2011, 08:15 AM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(24-06-2011 05:32 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  In case you're subscribed to this thread what happened Lion? Haven't heard from you in quite a while. I hope everything is going ok.

Thanks for your interest in my situation, I'm ok, and in the last couple of days I had some conversations with my mom and dad about some of the questions that I have. For example, asked my mum if the situation wer're currently in(where we have a 'free will' and are able to choose for or against God), is really better than a paradise on earth where everyone is always doing what's good(I imagined it as a worldwide garden of Eden, without the forbidden trees and talking snake of course). If the current situation where there is so much suffering throughout the whole history, and where a mayority of the people will end up in hell(according to most christians), was really God's divine plan for the world, I must admit that it has gotten seriously out of hand(a look at the 20th century with it's world wars and dictatorial regimes is enough to come to that conclusion) I had asked a question about the concept of 'free will' to my dad before I started to seriously question my beliefs, and he said that God didn't want us to be robots, but I'm really wondering if such a situation wouldn't be better for everyone. I told my mother that, the more I'm thinking about my beliefs and the Bible, the less logical it all seems to be(she didn't judge me for saying that, and I think she understands it so she's okay with me asking questions). I also talked to my dad about a couple of things, and we did a parallel reading of the resurrection story in the four gospels(Mattew, Mark, Luke, John). It was really eye-opening, because Only the gospel of Mattew talks about an angel rolling the stone away, and two guards what were scared, while the other gospels don't mention such important facts. And there are also other differences such as the number of angels and the people visiting the grave. My dad doesn't seem to have any problem with such contradictions, while it raises questions to me such as: If the four accounts contradict on certain facts, which one can we read as the version that represents the truth?
One thing that my dad said this morning really bothered me, and he said that you can ONLY have happiness in your life if you know Jesus. Huh
Such statements just don't make sense, although I admit that a lot of people had their lives changed when they were born-again and experience a lot of happines from it. I expressed my disagreement with his statement, but he replied saying: People who know Jesus and you lose it, want to have it back, because it gives you so much happiness.
I didn't want get into an argument with him over that, so I just quit with the conversation.

I'm also done watching the Evid3nc3 series on youtube, and it was really intersting to me, and I think he told his story really well, and I also liked the animations he used to explain certain things(like how his belief in God was built up from multiple beliefs that fell one by one).

I'm sure my mother is okay with me questioning my beliefs, because she admitted that I have my first crisis of belief, and she doesn't judge me for it, but she understands it and is open to my questions. She also admitted that she has more questions than answers, so she also has diffuculties with believing sometimes. I think my dad doesn't even know that I'm questioning my beliefs, because I only go to him with a few quetions that I have, while I talk with my mum about a lot more questions. I also think he wouldn't understand it if he finds out, because he simply sees no reason to have doubts.
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25-06-2011, 09:26 AM
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
Glad to hear that you're able to discuss things with your mom. It seems things are going pretty well. One of the people Evid3nc3 suggests looking into is a youtuber named prplefox. I haven't looked at his stuff yet, but he suggested it's very empathetic so he may be another good person to look into as far as soul searching. Besides talking with your parents what types of things have you been doing to look towards the other side? Since you're currently questioning i hope you're looking well at both sides. wouldn't want you to decide on one way with only half the arguments. Any time things are confusing it is best to look at both sides. If you get to a certain point in non-belief though, it becomes pretty hard to accept the opinions of the other side. When life is lived rationally, the appeals to emotion just don't carry the same weight.

That's why Evid3nc3 cherishes and tries to bolster his ability to empathize with christians, it can be very difficult for someone who sees their basis for life as horribly inaccurate.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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25-06-2011, 10:38 AM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2011 11:31 AM by Lion of the Netherlands.)
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(25-06-2011 09:26 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  Glad to hear that you're able to discuss things with your mom. It seems things are going pretty well. One of the people Evid3nc3 suggests looking into is a youtuber named prplefox. I haven't looked at his stuff yet, but he suggested it's very empathetic so he may be another good person to look into as far as soul searching. Besides talking with your parents what types of things have you been doing to look towards the other side? Since you're currently questioning i hope you're looking well at both sides. wouldn't want you to decide on one way with only half the arguments. Any time things are confusing it is best to look at both sides. If you get to a certain point in non-belief though, it becomes pretty hard to accept the opinions of the other side. When life is lived rationally, the appeals to emotion just don't carry the same weight.

That's why Evid3nc3 cherishes and tries to bolster his ability to empathize with christians, it can be very difficult for someone who sees their basis for life as horribly inaccurate.

I'll look into the channel of prplefox, and it's a good idea to also look into the arguments of christians(I'm quite sure that's what you mean with looking at the other side), because besides talking to my parents, I've mainly read an listened to what the atheists say, so I'm also going to look at the christian side.
The reason why I'm not really looking into the arguments from the other side lately is because I've heard the arguments from the christian side all my life, and it's really interesting for me to learn what atheists are saying, because I've avoided their arguments my whole life until now, and when I couldn't avoid it I simply didn't think about it. But I still think it's a good idea to look into both sides well, so I'm also going to read more about the christian arguments.
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26-06-2011, 01:08 PM
 
RE: Growing doubts about my Christian faith and the Bible.
(25-06-2011 08:15 AM)Lion of the Netherlands Wrote:  One thing that my dad said this morning really bothered me, and he said that you can ONLY have happiness in your life if you know Jesus. Huh
Such statements just don't make sense, although I admit that a lot of people had their lives changed when they were born-again and experience a lot of happines from it.
Happiness is a state of mind, nothing more, nothing less. You could be listening to a good story teller who could cause you to experience several different emotions. Within an hour this person could make you feel happy, sad, angry etc... happiness is what you make of it. The bible really doesn't speak much about happiness, it speaks more about the joy of the Lord. Currently I'm going through some hard times, so these days I'm rarely happy, but I have the joy of the Lord which is always with me. If some tragedy were to befall me or one of my family members then it's very possible that I would never feel happy again, but the joy of the Lord is forever.

"Splendor and majesty are before Him, Strength and joy are in His place"

"My soul longed and even yearned for the courts of the LORD; My heart and my flesh sing for joy to the living God"

"Those who sow in tears shall reap with joyful shouting. He who goes to and fro weeping, carrying his bag of seed, Shall indeed come again with a shout of joy, bringing his sheaves with him"
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