Guilt
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10-11-2012, 05:46 PM
RE: Guilt
Well, one might often be able to recognise themselves as an arsehole for things that others would feel guilty about, but I have done some stupid, malicious and down right evil shit in my day... so, I am definitely an arsehole... I just don't seem to feel any guilt.

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10-11-2012, 08:03 PM
RE: Guilt
(10-11-2012 05:46 PM)frankiej Wrote:  Well, one might often be able to recognise themselves as an arsehole for things that others would feel guilty about, but I have done some stupid, malicious and down right evil shit in my day... so, I am definitely an arsehole... I just don't seem to feel any guilt.
We might be confusing verb and noun.... feeling guilt as a social incentive or disincentive vs. being guilty of something i.e. feeling remorse after the fact.

The former is necessary for social groups, the latter is counter-productive unless it is coupled with an analytical approach of:
What happened?
Did my actions cause this?
Why did I do that?
How will I change?

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Carry on.

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11-11-2012, 09:37 AM
RE: Guilt
In my humble opinion, guilt falls under 1 of only 2 categories that cover the motivation of all sentient life.

I am not some psychologist, nor do I fancy myself as some revolutionary thinker, but after many years of observing life I have concluded how things work, and they work in such a simple way.

Basically, it all breaks down to just 2 things:

1. Increase our pleasure.

2. Decrease our pain.

It's all about pleasure and pain. Everything we do supports just those two attributes. However, I have also concluded something else.

There is no such thing as an unselfish act. Every last thing we do is 100% selfishly motivated.

Often people will say, "What about the soldier who sacrifices his life by throwing himself onto a grenade to save the lives of his fellow soldiers and friends?"

Well, what motivated the soldier to do that? Fear? Love? You see, no matter what emotion or reasoning motivated him to throw himself on the grenade, it can all be traced back to either decreasing his pain, or increasing his pleasure. In the case of that soldier, he would likely be decreasing the pain of fear for his friends rather than love for his friends.

It's all about what motivates us to do the things we do. We cannot help but be selfish, because it is the nature of all life to be selfish. The problem with selfishness is that some of us take it to an extreme insomuch as that in an effort to greatly increase our own pleasures, we inflict pain on others.

Selfish in itself is not a dirty word, because that's the way we all are. We are all trying to either increase our pleasure, or decrease our pain. Every last thing we do serves one or the other.

How can anyone become an atheist when we were all born with no religious beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were ...
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11-11-2012, 12:40 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2012 01:54 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Guilt
Guilt is an emotion of shame which follows and act. Motivation is that which precedes an act. There are entirely different.

Guilt, which is the subject at hand, is a post-event regret or *state* that a judgement was made concerning a potential action, which was acted on, and the consequences for the act were either miss-perceived, or the decision to act was made using short term gain over long term gain, or an incorrect combination, or "percentage" perceived combo of the gains. Humans ALWAYS act 100 % according to what they perceive at the time, maximizes their own maximum gain. We learn "guilt", having experienced "shame". The Neuro-biology for that emotion is complex, but "shame" is learned, and culturally, and personally relative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIdrTxKHhVc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRC--HM6AqM

The question of "empathy" as motivation, is a completely different matter, and is far from settled, in science.
Rats, and even ants at one point were seen, in studies, as acting "emphatically". Recently, a group from Oxford questioned the perception of empathy in the animal models. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...160800.htm

What *motivates* an individual act as also complex, and Neuro-science had proven that all the elements, (and there are MANY), which "motivates the result , or a given act, are not entirely present in consciousness BEFORE the act is done, thus resulting shame and "guilt" is a state which can result from brain activity which was not conscious, and indeed occurs AFTER the act, but the brain causes the "remembrance" to seem like it occurred before the act.

Guilt can be very useful, in that the experience in memory, of shame, can be useful in motivation, and the avoidance of future mistakes, or misjudgements about the relationship between short term and long term maximization of beneficial effects of actions.

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