Gun Control
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16-10-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 06:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 06:46 PM)pablo Wrote:  I think the term "assault rifle" is a deceptive device used by gun control proponents to make the weapons sound scarier and more dangerous.
People with a cause like to twist words and meanings to suit their side of the argument.
Example: Anti-abortion activists using the term "pro-life'.
I don't think it is at all accidental.
I just think the pro gun control people want to be safe, want their kids to be safe. They have no financial gain from this stance, and really have no insentive to just argue for the sake of it.

"assault rife" is a term coined by the gun people right? they use it to label guns with selective fire mode.
Maybe calling it "assault rife" rather than "selective fire rifle" made it easier to market the gun to the army or to the public that go for that sort of thing.

Not quite. The term 'assault rifle' is not new; it defines a class of weapon invented by the Germans in WWII.

'Assault weapon' is a term invented by gun-control people to demonize semi-automatic rifles that look like assault rifles.

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16-10-2014, 07:24 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 06:11 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 05:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  I hope that person isn't restricted to a magazine limited to a few shots.
Hopefully they are a good shot. Don't want any stray bullets hitting people.
How many bullets do they need?

Enough.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2014, 07:28 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 06:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 06:46 PM)pablo Wrote:  I think the term "assault rifle" is a deceptive device used by gun control proponents to make the weapons sound scarier and more dangerous.
People with a cause like to twist words and meanings to suit their side of the argument.
Example: Anti-abortion activists using the term "pro-life'.
I don't think it is at all accidental.
I just think the pro gun control people want to be safe, want their kids to be safe. They have no financial gain from this stance, and really have no insentive to just argue for the sake of it.

"assault rife" is a term coined by the gun people right? they use it to label guns with selective fire mode.
Maybe calling it "assault rife" rather than "selective fire rifle" made it easier to market the gun to the army or to the public that go for that sort of thing.

The thought that gun control would make them 'safe' is naive at best.
I'm not sure who first coined the phrase "assault rifle" but it would certaily be better if proper terms were used if for nothing else at least for accuracy.
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16-10-2014, 07:31 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 03:07 PM)Stevil Wrote:  2. The term "assault" is the opposite of "defense", a rifle that is suited to make an assault is not necessarily a suitable defense weapon.

That doesn't follow unless you have some particular meaning for 'defense weapon' in mind. Consider

Quote:Most pro gun control people are worried about assaults rather than defense. Common sense would suggest in order to reduce massacres then guns suitable for making such an assault ought to be removed from society. There is nothing grammatically incorrect about calling a gun suitable for making assaults an "assault rifle".

But that already has a well-defined meaning, so that use is incorrect.

Quote:Many people have opinions on guns within society, not everyone is upto speed with gun terminology.

I think people argue very strongly on this term because "assault rifle" could be either argued as being a rifle suitable for making assaults, or a rifle with a selective firing mechanism.

It is an intentionally dishonest or ignorant use of the term.

Quote:But to quote Shakespear, "that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet". The argument should be fought on the dangers the gun presents rather than the label people put on the gun.

But the dangers vary by type of weapon, so some minimum level of knowledge is required for a productive discussion.

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16-10-2014, 07:35 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 07:28 PM)pablo Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 06:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I just think the pro gun control people want to be safe, want their kids to be safe. They have no financial gain from this stance, and really have no insentive to just argue for the sake of it.

"assault rife" is a term coined by the gun people right? they use it to label guns with selective fire mode.
Maybe calling it "assault rife" rather than "selective fire rifle" made it easier to market the gun to the army or to the public that go for that sort of thing.

The thought that gun control would make them 'safe' is naive at best.
I'm not sure who first coined the phrase "assault rifle" but it would certaily be better if proper terms were used if for nothing else at least for accuracy.

Allegedly it was Hitler

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16-10-2014, 07:43 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 07:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 01:27 PM)Sam Wrote:  What is it about pro gun people, taking everything down to technical terminology, as if it makes a difference?

They seem to think that if you don't know the technical ins and outs of firearms, that you aren't qualified to comment on it... That's bullshit.

I saw one video where a guy referred to an M16 as a "machine gun"... The fucking arguments in the comments section over that. Its petty as hell.

It means a meaningful discussion never happens, because everyone's still debating whether or not it matters that he called it a "machine gun" or an "assault rifle"...

Some might call this a "street howitzer".

[Image: Denix-1881-Street-Howitzer-1114.jpg]

This is a "real" howitzer.

[Image: m114_155mm_howitzer_new3.jpg]

My neighbor owning an operational model of the latter would cause me some concern Confused Not so much the former Tongue

I know of a bloke who bought an old T55 tank with a live main gun... He had it parked in his back yard.

I don't know what he had to do to be allowed that, but he celebrated New Year by firing a few blanks... And shattered the rear windows of his house.

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16-10-2014, 07:44 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 07:35 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 07:28 PM)pablo Wrote:  The thought that gun control would make them 'safe' is naive at best.
I'm not sure who first coined the phrase "assault rifle" but it would certaily be better if proper terms were used if for nothing else at least for accuracy.

Allegedly it was Hitler

I doubt it, but that is the myth.

Wikipedia Wrote:The StG 44 (abbreviation of Sturmgewehr 44, "assault rifle 44") is a German assault rifle developed during World War II that was the first of its kind to see major deployment and is considered by many historians to be the first modern assault rifle.

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16-10-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 07:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  But the dangers vary by type of weapon, so some minimum level of knowledge is required for a productive discussion.
Sure, but arguing about the term "assault rifle" adds no value to the gun debate.

No one cares about the "selective fire" mechanism.

The argument is about public safety and government intervention.

I agree that it is useful for people involved in this debate to know that "assault rifle" is a term which refers to a "selective fire" mechanism on a rifle. Useful to know because then they can agree to move on with the discussion and no longer focus on a "selective fire" mechanism.
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16-10-2014, 08:01 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 07:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 07:16 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  Some might call this a "street howitzer".

[Image: Denix-1881-Street-Howitzer-1114.jpg]

This is a "real" howitzer.

[Image: m114_155mm_howitzer_new3.jpg]

My neighbor owning an operational model of the latter would cause me some concern Confused Not so much the former Tongue

I know of a bloke who bought an old T55 tank with a live main gun... He had it parked in his back yard.

I don't know what he had to do to be allowed that, but he celebrated New Year by firing a few blanks... And shattered the rear windows of his house.

Psst... thread started off about a comedian so...
I always wanted a working Tiger II to use as my daily driver Laugh out load

[Image: tigerii008cw_19a.jpg]

I wouldn't need a working main gun, though! Unfortunately, the only one left that still runs, and moves occasionally, can be found at the Musee de Blindes in Saumur, France, so I'll probably never own one Sadcryface





I have never wept with joy... I would weep for my chariot Weeping Hug Weeping Heart Weeping

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16-10-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: Gun Control
(16-10-2014 08:01 PM)TheGulegon Wrote:  
(16-10-2014 07:43 PM)Sam Wrote:  I know of a bloke who bought an old T55 tank with a live main gun... He had it parked in his back yard.

I don't know what he had to do to be allowed that, but he celebrated New Year by firing a few blanks... And shattered the rear windows of his house.

Psst... thread started off about a comedian so...
I always wanted a working Tiger II to use as my daily driver Laugh out load

[Image: tigerii008cw_19a.jpg]

I wouldn't need a working main gun, though! Unfortunately, the only one left that still runs, and moves occasionally, can be found at the Musee de Blindes in Saumur, France, so I'll probably never own one Sadcryface





I have never wept with joy... I would weep for my chariot Weeping Hug Weeping Heart Weeping

Kinda rare though isn't it...

At least with Russian stuff, you know there's never gonna be shortage...

This is the bloke... Does it every year apparently. And I thought my neighbors were noisy.




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