Gun Control - a discussion
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25-07-2012, 10:17 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2012 10:26 PM by il_bandit.)
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
For myself, I do enjoy shooting and I like shooting what some people call "assault rifles."

I see them as neither necessary ot unnecessary to society as a whole.

I don't think banning them would help at all with the problems. After all, pot is banned yet easily available to a college student. Alcohol couldn't be controlled during prohibition and for a student living in a dorm that bans it, they still get it and drink unsafe amounts. One of my friends is lucky he didn't die from poisoning one night when he puked so much it got bloody.

An article I read in a newspaper called wine in grocery stores a "necessary right" to end all prohibition like laws on the books but I think controlling guns doesn't lead to any benefit and just invites more restrictions on daily living. I support mental health awareness and the regulations involving restrictions on purchase if already known to be mentally ill or criminal history.

Many of the more biased posts I've seen have misinformed people about what the firearms used in the shooting were really like. I know people who thought he had the ability to shoot full auto, and that full auto is common and cheap. It's actually not at all cheap. 10 grand at least. If I were going to sell a full auto weapon, I'd want to do so legally just because the money is so much better.

That's my 2 cents anyway. Bans never stop availability anymore.

EDIT. In some areas hunting is useful for keeping overpopulation from happening. Deer starving aren't fun, and venison does taste great. I never will take a shot unless I'm certain one shot is one fast kill, as painless as possible. I think many people are under the impression that semi-auto can be converted to full auto, well that's already illegal. It's illegal to do most modifications that criminals tend to do already. Making more things illegal on the books doesn't change the black market. Also, automatic weapons are not very often picked up by police or found with criminals. They are limited due to bans already on new weapons and foreign weapons being brought into the country. I think the first auto weapon ban was in the 30s after gangsters made life for police difficult. The only issue I can see any resolve possible on is volume of ammo sales. Even so, one of my rifles has a 30 round magazine, I can shoot a few hundred rounds at any range visit.

I think mental health should be a significant part of public health these days already.

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26-07-2012, 09:11 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
Regardless of your position on gun controls, the numbers at the link below are staggering:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/facts?s=1

Statistics are based CDC reports.

In an average year, 31,593 Americans died from gun violence! 66,769 survived a gun injury -- nearly 100,000 total in a given year!

This year, 3,000 children will be killed and 14,000 will survive a gun shot wound.

Every day, 270 people in America are shot. 87 of them will die...

To put that into perspective, in 2010, 32,885 people were killed in automobile accidents. The number of people killed each year in automobile accidents has been steadily declining since 2000. 1972 was the highest number of car-related fatalities at 54,589.

If trends continue, the number of people killed annually by guns will soon exceed the number of people killed in car accidents.

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26-07-2012, 09:26 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
(26-07-2012 09:11 AM)Seasbury Wrote:  In an average year, 31,593 Americans died from gun violence! 66,769 survived a gun injury -- nearly 100,000 total in a given year!

The stats are too easy for some Americans to ignore. Imagine all of those deaths combined into single events. Imagine ten 9/11s each year... and then try and justify the existing gun climate with any degree of good conscience.
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26-07-2012, 09:39 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2012 10:01 AM by HDT.)
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
(25-07-2012 11:17 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-07-2012 10:08 AM)HDT Wrote:  I would disagree slightly on hunting as is can play a role in helping to preserve biodiversity by capping populations of animals that have less fighting against them thanks mostly in part to our other activities.

The fact is there is no real purpose whatsoever that a sane human being has for owning an assault weapon other than as a "toy". They're fun, I'll admit. There is an adrenaline rush that comes from shooting them which is what I would assume the majority of people who own them cite as their real reason. The losses seem to outweigh the gains heavily here though. The Aurora shooting you're speaking about involved a heavy assault weapon.

It is not very hard at all for a mentally unstable person to purchase a gun in the United States right now, even if there are certain factors clearly deeming that they are not in the right mind to buy one.

OK, enough with this 'assault weapon' bullshit. You are demonstrating a misinformed and ignorant reaction.

An assault rifle is a fully-automatic weapon - and AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It is not a 'heavy assault weapon'. It fires a light (55 or 65 grain) .22 caliber bullet.

There are semi-automatic rifles far more powerful that the AR-15 that you would not have classified as 'assault weapons', but would have identified as 'hunting rifles'. You really don't want to get shot with a round from an actual high-powered hunting rifle.

You're probably right, I'm not a gun nut (not being deragatory) and do not know specifics about them. No need to talk down to me. I do know that an AR 15 is a semi automatic version of an M16. I don't see how it's justifiable to purchase one for any reasons other than the fact that you just like guns or you want to kill people. Therefore I don't see why it is a bad idea to strongly look into the people who are attempting to purchase weapons of similar stature, whether classified as assault weapons or hunting rifles is irrelevant.

EDIT: I'd like to say that my position isn't on banning guns per se, but making policies that assure they aren't getting into the wrong hands even at the expense of making it a pain in the ass for responsible persons to buy them. I know that bothers some, but I feel that it's a necessary trade off. I think these types of discussions become to polarized too quick with one side advocating banning guns outright and the other saying that no gun regulation is the only good gun regulation.

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26-07-2012, 10:32 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
Remember what happened in Oklahoma City? Not a single gun was fired but a truck with diesel fuel and fertilizer exploded.

The point... This guy didn't need the guns just a bit of chemistry, and we know he was able to make explosives.

I'd say if explosives we're his only method of killing the result could've been worse.

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26-07-2012, 10:42 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
Remember what happened in Oklahoma City? Not a single gun was fired but a truck with diesel fuel and fertilizer exploded.

The point... This guy didn't need the guns just a bit of chemistry, and we know he was able to make explosives.

I'd say if explosives we're his only method of killing the result could've been worse.

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26-07-2012, 10:47 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
(26-07-2012 10:42 AM)fstratzero Wrote:  Remember what happened in Oklahoma City? Not a single gun was fired but a truck with diesel fuel and fertilizer exploded.

The point... This guy didn't need the guns just a bit of chemistry, and we know he was able to make explosives.

I'd say if explosives we're his only method of killing the result could've been worse.

Remember what happened in Norway?

Explosion: 8 deaths
Gun casualties: 69 deaths

Different stats can be made to support different positions. Regardless of whatever other options are available, the ease of access to guns is a problem.
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26-07-2012, 10:54 AM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
I would agree with that point, except the ease of making explosives is more accessible.

Even to minors. A kid at my highschool made some at the age of 14. But he couldn't buy a gun.

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26-07-2012, 02:00 PM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
I wonder...why does the access to guns the only thing focused on by some of you?

The social problems and economic problems and mental health problems of murderers is probably more important still.

As an Oklahoman I can easily see the results of bombings. There was also the idiot who blew himself up on the campus here in town.

To prevent people killing, the factors that lead to them like poverty and drugs would have to be controlled. Mental health has to be a focus and education. Preventing as many broken homes in complete poverty needs to be a focus.

I would not object to a more controlled CCW system that would allow people to undergo more training, including legal training, to carry with less restriction on when and where, at their own cast of course, but it could be handled by police and lawyers to make more educated, trained citizens who can carry.

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26-07-2012, 02:21 PM
RE: Gun Control - a discussion
(26-07-2012 02:00 PM)il_bandit Wrote:  I wonder...why does the access to guns the only thing focused on by some of you?

The social problems and economic problems and mental health problems of murderers is probably more important still.

Because those issues are not unique to America.

Plus, gun deaths are not the sole result of those issues. Accidental (or mis-use) gun deaths are also common. So it is an issue of accessibility. Not many countries have gun access in their constitutions.
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