Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
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08-06-2012, 12:41 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(07-06-2012 09:59 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  If one person has a gun it is clear who's in charge and he gets the money or whatever then buggers off. But if two people have a gun someone's getting shot..
So really it comes down to weather you value material possessions over some strangers life. Which I guess why gun related murder is so high in America.
It's a bit difficult though. Because in a highly armed society, a robber is going to be armed no question. An unarmed homeowner is a. asking to be robbed a *lot*, b. completely at the mercy of the intruder. If the intruder decides not to bugger off, but to have a bit of fun, maybe rape someone, maybe shoot the guy in the leg... maybe kill him anyway... he's got the gun so you do as he says. I can see the motivation for owning a gun definitely.

In order to counter this you *have* to guarantee that the baddies don't have guns too... I think Azaraith's suggested gun laws are a good starting point, although they stand a snowball's chance in hell of being implemented Sad
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08-06-2012, 05:40 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Thinking about this some more, why is security something that we do as individuals? I guess it's nice to have gun as a last resort, but the way I'd get around the armed robbery thing is the whole neighbourhood watch idea. Now only one guy really needs to have a gun, he can be a paid security guard, with training etc. He's awake at night so he's alert and can use the gun safely (well, more safely than some groggy guy getting up in the middle of the night to investigate kitchen noises). If you live in a larger complex you can pay more security guards. This way individual gun ownership isn't as necessary... thoughts?
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08-06-2012, 08:12 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2012 08:16 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(08-06-2012 05:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  Thinking about this some more, why is security something that we do as individuals? I guess it's nice to have gun as a last resort, but the way I'd get around the armed robbery thing is the whole neighbourhood watch idea. Now only one guy really needs to have a gun, he can be a paid security guard, with training etc. He's awake at night so he's alert and can use the gun safely (well, more safely than some groggy guy getting up in the middle of the night to investigate kitchen noises). If you live in a larger complex you can pay more security guards. This way individual gun ownership isn't as necessary... thoughts?
The biggest problem here is response time. There is only about 1 private security personnel or public police officers per 2500 people in the US. It can take them anywhere from 6 to 30 minutes for them to respond to an emergency call, depending on variables like traffic, officer locations, etc. Violent encounters are over in 6 to 30 seconds, with the loser going to the morgue. An individual armed with a gun, properly trained can effectively respond to the threat much faster.

Also, and bear this in mind, private security personnel or public police officers HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO RESPOND TO A 911 CALL OR SIMILAR DISTRESS CALL. If their departments feel it's too risky, they won't dispatch officers. Pray you don't live in a dangerous part of town.

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08-06-2012, 08:20 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

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08-06-2012, 08:29 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
The response time issue is one of the reasons I tentatively support guns for self defense. My issues are with lack of proper training and education and very loose/lax sales of guns, which result in people buying guns that do not regard them with the respect and care that they require. Gun accidents with kids happen and are preventable, if people are educated. Part of that is to restrict access (for kids - I.E. keep them in a safe or hidden with good locks on them), another is to educate kids about them (the parent's job) to remove their natural curiosity about guns and make sure they know not to mess with them or treat them as toys.

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08-06-2012, 08:49 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(08-06-2012 08:29 AM)Azaraith Wrote:  The response time issue is one of the reasons I tentatively support guns for self defense. My issues are with lack of proper training and education and very loose/lax sales of guns, which result in people buying guns that do not regard them with the respect and care that they require. Gun accidents with kids happen and are preventable, if people are educated. Part of that is to restrict access (for kids - I.E. keep them in a safe or hidden with good locks on them), another is to educate kids about them (the parent's job) to remove their natural curiosity about guns and make sure they know not to mess with them or treat them as toys.
It's true. I know plenty of yokels - see 'em on the ranges - doing unsafe things and I'll keep a sharp eye on everyone there. Gun owners could really stand to be better prepped on handling firearms for said purposes. I'm just not sure how to implement this. And even with training, people are still careless, as these two cops demonstrate.

This Las Vegas Metro cop nearly kills a cuffed and restrained suspect because she can't remember not to touch the trigger of her sidearm until she's ready to use it.







Then there's Mr. I'm-the-only-one-here-who's-professional-enough-to-handle-a-Glock-Fowty.




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08-06-2012, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 08-06-2012 08:59 AM by Azaraith.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
lol. I've seen the second video before. Worst I've seen is some idiot at the range that faced away from the range and fired into the ground to check if he was clear. Almost made me tear him a new one, but instead I notified the range officer. The bullet could have easily hit a rock/cement/etc and ricocheted or sent fragments into the people next to him...

I think it's just carelessness from getting used to them plus a little bit of "it'll never happen to me" syndrome.

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08-06-2012, 02:37 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(08-06-2012 08:20 AM)Chas Wrote:  When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
You're talking about this as if it was something that happens on a regular basis, let alone at all. How many times has there been an intruder in your house that you had to defend yourself against?

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08-06-2012, 02:45 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
All these issues with self-defence are getting brought up and I think it's so weird that places like the UK, that don't allow gun possession, don't have all these issues that are being touted as inevitable.

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08-06-2012, 03:16 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(08-06-2012 02:45 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  All these issues with self-defence are getting brought up and I think it's so weird that places like the UK, that don't allow gun possession, don't have all these issues that are being touted as inevitable.
Well they do but its comparing apples to oranges. Great Britian does not believe its citizens have the right to defend themselves in their homes using deadly force. British courts even ruled as such and people can be sent to prison for attempting to defend themselves from prowlers or other threats.

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