Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
02-06-2012, 01:23 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(01-06-2012 11:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Gun control eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Just have a scroll through that for a minute.

Here's a quick example.

Quote: October 17, 1961: Denver, Colorado
Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15,
at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38
caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet
also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.
How is that a 14 year old boy has such easy access to a .38caliber handgun. That's not a small handgun. (I mean it's no 50 but you know what I mean..., it's not 9mm either).

Now if that kid didn't have access to a handgun all that would have been was a schoolyard punch up.

The fact is that if you make guns so easily accessible then gun crime is going to skyrocket.
And I am sure you can find plenty of statistics about the relationship between gun laws and gun crime.

No gun control bill would have prevented this crime as it was a shitty parent that allowed the kid unsupervised access to a gun, not to mention the shitty job they did parenting the kid where he believed murder was an acceptable solution to resolve some trivial schoolyard dispute. The kid didn't go down to a gunshop, buy the thing, and then shoot his classmate.

Also, though guns are no longer sold to minors, I know 60 something's today who have fond memories of saving money from summer lawn mowing jobs so they could buy a .22 down at the local hardware store prior to the GCA of '68. Some of these same people brought these guns to school; they left them in their cars so they could go hunting when class got out. It's a different era in America and these were different people.

So the problem really isn't that people have access to guns, it's that they are 1) raised as spoiled, egocentric little shits by the Dr Spock plastic participation trophy self esteem child rearing schemes 2) Same parents never instilled in their kids that they had a responsibility to the community and to others to live upstanding, moral lives and that killing is morally wrong 3) Same collective of spoiled little shits glorify violence, cruelty and aggression 4) Parents leave deadly weapons lying around where their kids can access them or don't properly train them how to safely handle a gun - and it's no wonder crimes like this happen.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver's post
02-06-2012, 04:37 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
If you seriously wanna reject the fact that when someone (even the most morally upstanding person) is pushed too far they can snap and act out of character for at least a few seconds then I'm out.

You're either not listening to what people are saying or are purposely ignoring the truth.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Hughsie's post
02-06-2012, 05:15 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(01-06-2012 12:30 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Isn't it strange how countries who have more gun regulations have far less gun crime?

Gun controls are good. If I go out and happen to get into an argument with someone the worst that can happen is we end up swinging for each other. If guns were legal one of us could easily end up killing the other in the heat of the moment. I'm glad someone else doesn't have the opportunity to do that to me and I'm equally glad I don't have the opportunity to do that to someone else.
Except when you look at actual facts, you find there is no correlation between violent crime and gun control or even the number of guns.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
02-06-2012, 05:16 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 04:37 AM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you seriously wanna reject the fact that when someone (even the most morally upstanding person) is pushed too far they can snap and act out of character for at least a few seconds then I'm out.

You're either not listening to what people are saying or are purposely ignoring the truth.
But that's not about guns.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
02-06-2012, 07:32 AM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 01:23 AM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  
(01-06-2012 11:40 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Gun control eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Just have a scroll through that for a minute.

Here's a quick example.

How is that a 14 year old boy has such easy access to a .38caliber handgun. That's not a small handgun. (I mean it's no 50 but you know what I mean..., it's not 9mm either).

Now if that kid didn't have access to a handgun all that would have been was a schoolyard punch up.

The fact is that if you make guns so easily accessible then gun crime is going to skyrocket.
And I am sure you can find plenty of statistics about the relationship between gun laws and gun crime.

No gun control bill would have prevented this crime as it was a shitty parent that allowed the kid unsupervised access to a gun, not to mention the shitty job they did parenting the kid where he believed murder was an acceptable solution to resolve some trivial schoolyard dispute. The kid didn't go down to a gunshop, buy the thing, and then shoot his classmate.

Also, though guns are no longer sold to minors, I know 60 something's today who have fond memories of saving money from summer lawn mowing jobs so they could buy a .22 down at the local hardware store prior to the GCA of '68. Some of these same people brought these guns to school; they left them in their cars so they could go hunting when class got out. It's a different era in America and these were different people.

So the problem really isn't that people have access to guns, it's that they are 1) raised as spoiled, egocentric little shits by the Dr Spock plastic participation trophy self esteem child rearing schemes 2) Same parents never instilled in their kids that they had a responsibility to the community and to others to live upstanding, moral lives and that killing is morally wrong 3) Same collective of spoiled little shits glorify violence, cruelty and aggression 4) Parents leave deadly weapons lying around where their kids can access them or don't properly train them how to safely handle a gun - and it's no wonder crimes like this happen.
No gun law would have prevented this crime? (or the large number of other ones).

I can think of one right off the top of my head.
"All guns must be kept under lock and key"

Kid can't shoot a gun if he doesn't have access to it.

Can I just say that your arguments are completely invalid in the first place.
"Oh, it's the parents fault". That is not the point, the point and at the end of the day, the violent action involving the handgun did actually occur irrespective of the all other factors such as education etc..

The FACT is that something like 13 children (under 19) are killed each DAY in the USA because of guns.

Its not about reducing crime (well it is but hear me out) its about reducing the violence in crime.
ie: If teen doesn't have access to a gun to job a convention store then he'll use a baseball bat instead. Now if something goes wrong (like say the clerk signals an alarm), with the gun he might shot the guy, where as with the baseball bat he may just hit him. Both would hurt no doubt, BUT the gun has a higher chance of fatality whereas the baseball bat may just brake an arm. I would rather have a broken arm then be dead, but that's just me.


At the end of the day guns are to widely accessible in the US which escalates the violence in crime.
No guns, no shootings.
I never read about the innocent little girl standing 20feet away who was killed because a guy stabbed a little too hard, went through his victim, lunged 20feet and stabbed the little girl.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like earmuffs's post
02-06-2012, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2012 10:03 AM by Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver.)
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 01:07 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(01-06-2012 10:20 PM)Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver Wrote:  If that were true, the US would have crushed the Taliban by Christmas 2001 and wrested control of Iraq within 90 days of the fall of Baghdad.

The truth is ragtag groups of well motivated fighters equipped with firearms and explosives can wreak havoc against even the most sophisticated armies on the planet. It's called asymmetric warfare. Fighting such a group using a regulated military is akin to trying to kill ants with a pile driver. It worked for the Colonial Militia in the American Revolution, it worked for the Viet Cong, it worked for the Tamil Guerillas, it worked for the Columbia. FARC, and it works for the Taliban. An armed American public has given large militaries pause before. Japanese Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku cautioned Hirohito about invading the USA, saying 'there will be a rifle behind every blade of grass to greet us.'
Can you envision a situation where the US army can actually go to war against its own citizens though. To have this scenario of guerilla fighters etc you'd have to have another civil war. Those guys in the army have civilian families. If some issue is so unjust or so emotive that a politician could feel the need to send the army in? I mean... I can think of the occupy wall street campaign as the sort of situation where the army might be used... but you're asking *citizens*, en masse, to take up arms against the army. It would take a *lot* to get them to do that,much more than incidents of brutality, probably more than even some blatant injustice like a massacre in a small town. For a start I'm pretty sure that that's illegal according to your laws, I'm guessing it's a capital crime, so these citizens have to be totally desperate in order to go down that road.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.....

......we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."


-Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver's post
02-06-2012, 01:24 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(01-06-2012 09:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I'm all for gun control.
Certainly people need valid reasons to own guns and certain guns, ones that are designed for killing people, aren't really necessary unless you are in the army and expecting to go to war.
I disagree. I own guns specifically designed for killing humans. I use my both for collection purposes as well as for personal defense. They are the most effective tools for that purpose. It's the same reason which the police and military use them, so why not I?

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Carlo_The_Bugsmasher_Driver's post
02-06-2012, 01:43 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
You might be qualified to use them, but even you seem to admit that there are people who are not fit to own guns, such as those irresponsible parents you mentioned?

Stricter gun regulation will not limit legitimate users as far as I can see.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
02-06-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
According to the Brady Campaign website, about 31,500 people will die in a year due to gunshot, of that number 18,200 will be suicides leaving 13,300 to die because of a gunshot by another person. (another 600 will die due to unintentional gunshots).

According to MADD roughly 11,000 people will die due to drink driving. (people will drive drunk about 80 times without causing death)

I have to guess that lots of people will own and/or shoot guns and not cause a death.

Either way you are looking at a situation where people need to take responsibility for their actions.

If you take away legal gun ownership, guns won't go anywhere except to a seedier element of society with the least honorable intentions. Black market would pick up for the sale of weapons...hence more crime.

If you take liquor away...well we know how that worked out. Maybe take cars away...nope, that won't work.

Comes back to people being responsible.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
02-06-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Gun Control (is Bullshit?)
(02-06-2012 05:15 AM)Chas Wrote:  Except when you look at actual facts, you find there is no correlation between violent crime and gun control or even the number of guns.
I have to disagree with you on this matter. This series of studies shows that there is indeed a correlation between the number of firearm related crimes and the strictness of the gun laws in the respective country. You'll see that the US has a signifcantly higher amount of gun related crimes compared to countries with very strict gun control.

[Image: 7oDSbD4.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: